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Ongoing Dem Debacle Thread: Commander will kill us all

ImTheCaptain said:
im sorry, i didn't think shoo was etching your L in stone here, just providing some evidence that your denial might be a little more real than you want to admit
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Why don't you make your own argument here then? What do you think?

How does a broad data set of general "defectors from [Bernie to Trump]" prove causation of a presumably MUCH SMALLER DATA SET of "Bernie Bros and DSA donks" causing Trump to win. How many people do you think make up that data set? How many people do you think make up that demographic in the states mentioned? We are talking a very small movement at the time. Our chapter still doesn't have the capacity to do more than just small fundraisers, a few medicare for all canvasses/educational events, and reading groups. There is a huge power differential here between tiny fledgling org with only major presence in DC/NY/CHI/Bay area, and the Democratic Party and other groups with power/money.

There is a constant here of some normal transfer of primary voters, no? If so, what is the delta from the Clinton/Romney switch?

So to make a causation argument, that "bernie bros and DSA donks" caused this defection, with a bit of a confirmation bias thrown in, without putting whatever causation you actually think happened in a larger context of more likely voter suppression/other factors that "helped give us Trump."

Meanwhile, anecdotes alert, almost all the the people on here, or that I know in real life, that shoo would classify as bernie bros, say they voted for Hillary, did/do voter registration work, went to J20 protests, are actively politically engaged. It's irrational to me to think these "bernie bros and DSA donks" influenced people to vote for Trump.

This whole repeated narrative is just MSNBC/Pod Save America centrist bullshit, and it's borderline gaslighting that all of you still think there is merit to the argument.
 
You should just congratulate Shoo and ITC for believing there are enough people identifying as DSA that they make a difference and move on.
 
Louis Gossett Jr said:
You should just congratulate Shoo and ITC for believing there are enough people identifying as DSA that they make a difference and move on.
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true, its kind of flattering they think we have/had that much influence in those states. Also keep in mind we were 5-6k then, compared to 60k now.

Are there any total numbers on Our Rev members? Other than Our Rev and DSA, I can't think of other orgs that would fit the definition here.
 
once again, i didn't claim, unequivocally, that this one study transfers sole responsibility for donald trump to bernie bros. all it says is that it's not a statistically impossibility, as you claim it is.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
once again, i didn't claim, unequivocally, that this one study transfers sole responsibility for donald trump to bernie bros. all it says is that it's not a statistically impossibility, as you claim it is.
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So your contention (and shoo's) is that everyone that voted for Bernie is a Bernie Bro or DSA member? Including the people who voted for Trump in the general? Considering DSA members are by and large college educated far left socialist activists, its very unlikely those Trump voters were "Bros" or DSA. It's a convenient smear though.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
So your contention (and shoo's) is that everyone that voted for Bernie is a Bernie Bro or DSA member? Including the people who voted for Trump in the general? Considering DSA members are by and large college educated far left socialist activists, its very unlikely those Trump voters were "Bros" or DSA. It's a convenient smear though.
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so you claim, anyway.
 
MHBDemon said:
you are welcome to provide your own argument.
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No he's not, nor is anyone else who doesn't goose step to what you and MDMH believe. Anything anyone says that varies 1% from you is immediately dismissed and attacked. You are no different at all from extremist RWers. Each extreme is all or nothing.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
So your contention (and shoo's) is that everyone that voted for Bernie is a Bernie Bro or DSA member? Including the people who voted for Trump in the general? Considering DSA members are by and large college educated far left socialist activists, its very unlikely those Trump voters were "Bros" or DSA. It's a convenient smear though.
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The more likely conclusion is that there were plenty of bros who voted for Bernie because they didn’t want Hillary (or any woman to win). Some of those bros also voted for Trump.

The Bernie folks think their coalition is bigger than it is basically due to toxic masculinity.
 
RJKarl said:
No he's not, nor is anyone else who doesn't goose step to what you and MDMH believe. Anything anyone says that varies 1% from you is immediately dismissed and attacked. You are no different at all from extremist RWers. Each extreme is all or nothing.
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No. There are things we ideologically disagree on. What you consider “forcing people to goose step to 100% what you believe” i just consider a process of bebating and delineating ideological differences. There are plenty of people on here that i appreciate their commitment to social justice, activism, even if I don’t 100% agree with them. There are plenty of people that support ending cash bail/or Medicare for All, that also don’t align ideologically with me, and i appreciate their support.You don’t want to engage in any of the arguments because you’d rather dismiss me for other reasons.
You are welcome to provide your own argument as well. Do you want to answer any of the questions posed to ITC?
 
PhDeac said:
The more likely conclusion is that there were plenty of bros who voted for Bernie because they didn’t want Hillary (or any woman to win). Some of those bros also voted for Trump.

The Bernie folks think their coalition is bigger than it is basically due to toxic masculinity.
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Lol. Jesus this take is trash. Stop listening to punditry.
 
MHBDemon said:
No. There are things we ideologically disagree on. What you consider “forcing people to goose step to 100% what you believe” i just consider a process of bebating and delineating ideological differences. There are plenty of people on here that i appreciate their commitment to social justice, activism, even if I don’t 100% agree with them. There are plenty of people that support ending cash bail/or Medicare for All, that also don’t align ideologically with me, and i appreciate their support.You don’t want to engage in any of the arguments because you’d rather dismiss me for other reasons.
You are welcome to provide your own argument as well. Do you want to answer any of the questions posed to ITC?
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I have brought up many reasonable arguments and every time you are dismissive and insulting. Others have been treated similarly.
 
How big is the Financial Services Committee?

AOC getting the headlines for joining, but other new members include Ayanna Pressley, Rashida Tlaib, and (arguably most importantly) Katie Porter.

On the left is Katie Porter, a professor of consumer-protection and bankruptcy law, who had her intellectual awakening as a student in Elizabeth Warren’s class at Harvard Law School. During the foreclosure crisis, Porter documented banks’ malfeasance and testified before the tarp committee in Congress.
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Link
 
RJKarl said:
I have brought up many reasonable arguments and every time you are dismissive and insulting. Others have been treated similarly.
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Don’t speak for others. You continuously slander me with accusations that I’m no different than a Nazi. So i have no problem treating you with a similar lack of respect.

You don’t provide substantive arguments. You provide a lot of appeal to authority and appeal to common sense fallacies and don’t back up your claims with support.
 
MHBDemon said:
Don’t speak for others. You continuously slander me with accusations that I’m no different than a Nazi. So i have no problem treating you with a similar lack of respect.

You don’t provide substantive arguments. You provide a lot of appeal to authority and appeal to common sense fallacies and don’t back up your claims with support.
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If you didn't see my name and lose your mind on EVERY issue, you attack and run away from people who mostly agree with you if we don't agree with everything. This thread is a perfect example. I agree we should have alternatives to prisons for almost all non-violent criminals. But you won't accept this. It has to be all or nothing.

I have provided substantive arguments on a number of subjects, but because my argument challenges yours it is dismissed. I'm not the only one. You do it to almost everyone.

It is not a "fallacy" to say there are violent people who need to kept away from society. It is totally irrational to dismiss this reality.
 
PhDeac said:
The more likely conclusion is that there were plenty of bros who voted for Bernie because they didn’t want Hillary (or any woman to win). Some of those bros also voted for Trump.

The Bernie folks think their coalition is bigger than it is basically due to toxic masculinity.
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I don't include Trump voters in the coalition, so you need to point that rebuttal at shoo and the rest of the dumbasses claiming that leftists voted for Trump.
 
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