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Ongoing NC GOP debacle thread

avalon said:
Googling isn't helping me much, does anyone have or know what evidence proved that the lawmakers obtained data on voting practices by race?
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I looked for that a little earlier because I wanted to see what specifically targeted African-Americans. Based on the statement of the judge, it was the early voting and same-day registration. If I find it I'll post here.

I found the entire bill (http://www.ncleg.net/Sessions/2013/Bills/House/PDF/H589v9.pdf) but it's really long.
 
knowell said:
Okay, but were they committing fraud when no-one was checking? Is that showing the effectiveness of ID's?

Just asking.
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I have no idea.

What's the voter fraud rate now? If it went up 1,000% what would it be then?
 
If the speed limit were enforced on the honor system and no one verified actual speeds, couldn't we just say that almost no one was speeding since we had no evidence to the contrary?

Bad analogy, but you get the point.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
What do you define as "checking"? Of course the state keeps up with cases of voter fraud.

http://www.journalnow.com/news/loca...cle_e55e598e-361b-11e5-8184-e3f7df261e9d.html

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/voter-fraud-north-carolina-not-so-fast-0

http://www.technicianonline.com/opinion/article_e4ee8354-77a5-11e5-b266-d75e1789c35c.html

http://www.journalnow.com/news/loca...cle_0b6085bc-3162-11e5-9f21-7b673935e3fd.html
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When there is no mechanism to verify identity during the act, you're not checking. I could keep stats on the number of times I held a $20.00 bill that was also at one time held by Michael Jordan, I would technically be keeping stats, wouldn't I? We use paper ballots and scantron machines in the most populated county in the State, and volunteers to hand them out. There isn't any genuine effort underway to verify identity.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Again, if you're ignoring costs, logistics, security, unnecessary redundancy and construct a narrative where only AA voters are incapable of getting a day off to vote, sure. Then...no other reason.
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So now the state isn't capable of providing pre-registration and provisional voting even though it always had in the past and is routine in the nation? We've gone from defending IDs to disputing normal voting methods to defend a law that was a solution without a problem, unless the problem is high turnout.
 
But this entire affair is classic politics in the hyper-divisive era. Take an incredibly solvable problem, apply a common sense solution with other real-world applications, which actually helps the person who was without the i.d. to begin with, just add water and.....a federal lawsuit alleging racism! 2016, y'all.
 
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying at all.

I showed my ID during the primary. They checked it against their documents, and I voted. I then put it in the box. How is that not checking my ID?

What's your alternative solution? We have shifted from "everybody should have an id", to "we need to verify identities during the act."
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
So now the state isn't capable of providing pre-registration and provisional voting even though it always had in the past and is routine in the nation? We've gone from defending IDs to disputing normal voting methods to defend a law that was a solution without a problem, unless the problem is high turnout.
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No one, anywhere, anytime, has argued that. Try again.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying at all.

I showed my ID during the primary. They checked it against their documents, and I voted. I then put it in the box. How is that not checking my ID?

What's your alternative solution? We have shifted from "everybody should have an id", to "we need to verify identities during the act."
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And the heavens didn't fall?

That IS my solution.
 
knowell said:
If the speed limit were enforced on the honor system and no one verified actual speeds, couldn't we just say that almost no one was speeding since we had no evidence to the contrary?

Bad analogy, but you get the point.
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I'm not going to debate you on this point. There have been a lot of studies that have shown that voter fraud is practically non-existent.

But even accepting your premise that we just don't know, wouldn't it be better to know what you're dealing with before blindly passing laws that indisputably prevent some eligible voters from voting?
 
jhmd2000 said:
No one, anywhere, anytime, has argued that. Try again.
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Why try to strike down those methods of voting that have been perfectly fine in the past? You listed a bunch of cockamamie reasons as if it's a burden on the state, probably similar to the cockamamie reasons the state itself argued that the appeals court didn't buy.
 
jhmd2000 said:
And the heavens didn't fall?

That IS my solution.
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Look, if the law said that everyone had to own a Chevy Camaro in order to vote, I assume that you would say that that's a ridiculously burdensome requirement. So your only argument is that getting an ID isn't burdensome. But the evidence is out there that for many people it IS burdensome. Regardless of whether you think it is or not, the facts are there.
 
I like that the mere notion that republican law makers would try to change voting laws to decrease turnout among certain people and increase their chances in elections is just beyond plausibility to some.
 
Fuck Your Couch said:
Why try to strike down those methods of voting that have been perfectly fine in the past? You listed a bunch of cockamamie reasons as if it's a burden on the state, probably similar to the cockamamie reasons the state itself argued that the appeals court didn't buy.
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Well, if your belief is that the judicial system is beyond the capability of error, I'd stay away from the Fascisom thread. At some point we have to stop searching out persecution behind every corner. I don't believe a generally applicable, common sense and universally-applied standard of adult behavior is racism, but perhaps my ceiling for others isn't as low as yours.

eta: We are trying to help people, right? If this problem is as widespread as the fear mongers claim, let's spend the eight cents and solve it.
 
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North Carolina is doing really well lately enacting discriminatory laws! Nice job, GOP!
 
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