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OOOOOOPPPPPPSSSSSS! Trumpettes got played!

He's already enriching his bidness with taxpayer money.
 
knowell said:
And this guy supported Hillary. No mirrors in your house Bake?
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Did Clinton win the election? Did you vote for Trump? Do you support Trump doing the types of things you did not support Clinton doing?
 
What bullshit was Hillary peddling? she meant everything she said and apparently so much so that we are all supposed to learn something about how to campaign for pres from this election, and from Trump.

which is it, knowell? you aren't making sense man
 
Strickland33 said:
Did Clinton win the election? Did you vote for Trump? Do you support Trump doing the types of things you did not support Clinton doing?
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Perhaps you could clarify. I am not sure what you are talking about.
 
Learn what exactly? I keep hearing that we are supposed to learn something, and we are being told that by people who acknowledge that the guy who won is a huckster, namely knowell and jhmd.

So the lesson to learn is be a huckster to Midwesterners? Avoid substantive points in favor of populist lies? Abandon all principles? Be a supposed outsider?
 
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WakeandBake said:
Learn what exactly? I keep hearing that we are supposed to learn something, and we are being told that by people who acknowledge that the guy who won is a huckster, namely knowell and jhmd.

So the lesson to learn is be a huckster to Midwesterners? Avoid substantive points in favor of populist lies? Abandon all principles? Be a supposed outsider?
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Come on. This is not a good post.

Learn how to win a damn election by not taking your base for granted is probably a good start. With the exceptions of Trump and Sanders, the establishment candidates conflated Super PAC and contribution cash with effective basebuilding and on-the-ground strategy (aka GOTV). The lesson is that, if you want someone to vote for you, then you have to listen to their issues and find a way of convincing them that your platform is inclusive enough to incorporate these issues.

You can be a carpetbagging snake oil salesman, like Trump has proven to be, or you can take the route of legit progressives like Sanders, who for all the crap that folks like ChrisL gave him, is pretty much the poster child for how to get people involved in the process. The DNC primary strategy of front loading states that Clinton had no chance of winning in the general turned out to be a poor predictor of her actual support and, in taking her base for granted, she poured resources into Texas and Georgia instead of making sure there was no chance in hell that she would lose Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Those are a few lessons that establishment Dems can learn and, by making sure that Ellison leads the DNC, I think the party could really make some strides forward for 2018/20.

But instead, Dems and establishment Pubs are in denial, blaming rubes and third party voters, rather than engaging in any sort of reflexive exercise to consider why their candidates all lost so badly in spite of so-called common sense.

Board liberals and board republicans that didn't vote for Trump should probably be doing this instead of this half-assed snark/trollfest that's come out of this election.
 
Strickland33 said:
Come on. This is not a good post.

Learn how to win a damn election by not taking your base for granted is probably a good start. With the exceptions of Trump and Sanders, the establishment candidates conflated Super PAC and contribution cash with effective basebuilding and on-the-ground strategy (aka GOTV). The lesson is that, if you want someone to vote for you, then you have to listen to their issues and find a way of convincing them that your platform is inclusive enough to incorporate these issues.

You can be a carpetbagging snake oil salesman, like Trump has proven to be, or you can take the route of legit progressives like Sanders, who for all the crap that folks like ChrisL gave him, is pretty much the poster child for how to get people involved in the process. The DNC primary strategy of front loading states that Clinton had no chance of winning in the general turned out to be a poor predictor of her actual support and, in taking her base for granted, she poured resources into Texas and Georgia instead of making sure there was no chance in hell that she would lose Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.

Those are a few lessons that establishment Dems can learn and, by making sure that Ellison leads the DNC, I think the party could really make some strides forward for 2018/20.

But instead, Dems and establishment Pubs are in denial, blaming rubes and third party voters, rather than engaging in any sort of reflexive exercise to consider why their candidates all lost so badly in spite of so-called common sense.

Board liberals and board republicans that didn't vote for Trump should probably be doing this instead of this half-assed snark/trollfest that's come out of this election.
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That's the lesson? Holy shit batman, you don't say?! And don't take the base for granted?

You don't think the overall democrat strategy has been to listenito the middle class in the Midwest, and that the message of the party ignores them? Hillary was a flawed candidate and a poor messenger and failed do this convincing, but exactly which planks of the platform need to be tossed out and changed to appeal to these voters? What overhaul needs to be done, besides picking a better messenger next time? The exact same platform, sold by a better candidate, blows Trump out of the water. So the lesson, IMO, is run candidates who sell it better. That's not revolutionary
 
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I think the dems should go massively economic progressive next time let's see if it works. I think some people are going to be disappointed at the results. If a supportable election base is that progressive they sure do a terrible job electing people to Congress who match their politics. It's pretty clear that certain portions of the base will totally sabotage the effort if they don't get their way so give them their way and see if they can deliver.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
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WakeandBake said:
That's the lesson? Holy shit batman, you don't say?! And don't take the base for granted?

You don't think the overall democrat strategy has been to listenito the middle class in the Midwest, and that the message of the party ignores them? Hillary was a flawed candidate and a poor messenger and failed do this convincing, but exactly which planks of the platform need to be tossed out and changed to appeal to these voters? What overhaul needs to be done, besides picking a better messenger next time? The exact same platform, sold by a better candidate, blows Trump out of the water. So the lesson, IMO, is run candidates who sell it better. That's not revolutionary
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It's not revolutionary. It's obvious. So obvious that the DNC lost track of it and left the United States with Trump. I mean, shit, the DNC chair was going to bat for the payday loan industry and missed that the theme of the election changed to economic inequality too late to do anything about it either up or down ballot. I hope that it burns all of these establishment fools every day, but it doesn't, as evidenced by Clinton surrogates' responses since the election wrapped up.

Selecting Keith Ellison to DNC Chair means that the 50 State Strategy will be back in full effect. That approach gets the Dems back some congressional seats and hopefully the presidency by 2020.

ChrisL68 said:
I think the dems should go massively economic progressive next time let's see if it works. I think some people are going to be disappointed at the results. If a supportable election base is that progressive they sure do a terrible job electing people to Congress who match their politics. It's pretty clear that certain portions of the base will totally sabotage the effort if they don't get their way so give them their way and see if they can deliver.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
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Blaming progressives is a stupid approach seeing as the neoliberal candidate just lost the presidential election to Donald Trump (who beat the economically neoliberal Republicans in the primary, too). That aside, ChrisL is right. Progressives aren't well-represented in Congress and that has to change. I'm seeing it locally in California and I see hints of it happening in the circles I used to run in in New York, but it needs to happen on a national level. But I also agree with Chris, caveat and all, that the DNC needs to make the economic platform as progressive as it can be and see how it works. Trickle down didn't work. Neoliberalism didn't work. Perhaps progressivism will.
 
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Certainly the two libertarian-voting posters I called out are not referring to being more progressive. I took jhmd's caterwauling over the past about lessons to be learned to mean a move to the right and abandonment of liberal values to appeal to white Midwesterners who lost their jobs, and point to their recent success in state elections as some kind of proof the country is more conservative than we dems think.
 
Strickland I agree with your positions on the issues, but I fail to plug in what you are posting to the "lesson"we must learn. I agree with you that GOTV was weak this time and cost us the election, but most of us were under the impression that obamas GOTV strategy was in place again. I think our execution was bad, but we know the plays.
 
WakeandBake said:
Certainly the two libertarian-voting posters I called out are not referring to being more progressive. I took jhmd's caterwauling over the past about lessons to be learned to mean a move to the right and abandonment of liberal values to appeal to white Midwesterners who lost their jobs, and point to their recent success in state elections as some kind of proof the country is more conservative than we dems think.
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The demographics speak for themselves. He's right in the sense that the electorate is probably more conservative than we Dems think, but he's wrong insofar as basebuilding and a concerted effort to court voters that turned out for Obama and not for Clinton can tip the scale tremendously. The story of this election is turnout. You can blame individual Sanders supporters or you can choose the DNC. Seeing as the latter is the institutional apparatus of the Democratic party, I'll chose to blame the DNC and hope they respond well to the criticism that they're receiving post-election.
 
WakeandBake said:
Strickland I agree with your positions on the issues, but I fail to plug in what you are posting to the "lesson"we must learn. I agree with you that GOTV was weak this time and cost us the election, but most of us were under the impression that obamas GOTV strategy was in place again. I think our execution was bad, but we know the plays.
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Most of us weren't under that impression at all. That's revisionist history, man. I can't remember - perhaps birdman or mdmh do - but a minority of us were criticizing DWS and the DNC long before the general - about these precise issues - and y'all chalked it up to either immaturity, stupidity, a lack of pragmatic thinking capacity, or Sanders millennial something something... The same went for these criticisms during the general. I, for one, asked about GOTV a lot because I was just not seeing much evidence of it nationally, particularly in battleground states.

We know the plays, sure, but need a capable offense coordinator who knows how to marry institutional resources with on-the-ground capacity and a quarterback (and skills players) capable of turning that strategy into gains. You can't win without a recruiting budget but you also can't win without capable coaching and talent.
 
Strickland33 said:
Most of us weren't under that impression at all. That's revisionist history, man. I can't remember - perhaps birdman or mdmh do - but a minority of us were criticizing DWS and the DNC long before the general - about these precise issues - and y'all chalked it up to either immaturity, stupidity, a lack of pragmatic thinking capacity, or Sanders millennial something something... The same went for these criticisms during the general. I, for one, asked about GOTV a lot because I was just not seeing much evidence of it nationally, particularly in battleground states.

We know the plays, sure, but need a capable offense coordinator who knows how to marry institutional resources with on-the-ground capacity and a quarterback (and skills players) capable of turning that strategy into gains. You can't win without a recruiting budget but you also can't win without capable coaching and talent.
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I based my opinion of her GOTV strategy off what I (thought) I heard Plouffe and Axlerod report during the summer and fall.

I don't know anything about the maturity or non pragmatic part you wrote. And iirc, members had Hillary getting 300+ EVs. But I'm an old burnout so maybe it's all in my head
 
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