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Physician-assisted suicide

SkinsNDeacs

SkinsNDeacs

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This has been a hard week for my family. My wife's grandmother (the woman who practically raised her) is dying. She was diagnosed with ovarian cancer nearly 25 years ago. She is literally a medical miracle. When she was diagnosed she was given no more than 3 years to live; like I said that was nearly 25 years ago. In those 25 years she has crammed in a lot of life. She took no shit from anyone and truly lived life like she was dying. She is the strongest person I have ever met.

However, she has finally succumb to this awful sickness. Two weeks ago her body finally had had enough and her organs started to fail; she was tired of fighting. For the last week she has been practically unconscious and she has not had food or drink for nearly 4 days. This has been the most painful thing I have ever witnessed a family go through. As true to her history, hospice has no idea how she is still alive but she is. I can't think of one good reason why there is not a process where a physician can put a merciful end to this. She is basically starving to death. One thought I can't escape...we treat our dogs better than we treat humans. There is no way we would not have put a dog to sleep at this stage. What is one good reason not to allow physician-assisted suicide to someone who has no chance of recovery?
 
It sucks, no matter how you slice it. There really (imo) are not good reasons to prolong life in such situations (vent, feeding tubes, etc.). There is, however, a lot of grey area when it comes to actively hastening death- and that grey area is ethics and the fact that no two situations are identical, so it's incredibly hard to say that X is the right thing to do in all situations like this, namely because few situations will match exactly. If you're coming from a Christian background, I think there are some really good reasons to tread lightly when it comes to assisted suicide, if you're operating under a different set of ethical norms, I think there is probably less grey area. Either way, tough situation, sorry for your family, and will keep you all in prayer.
 
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Sorry SnD, let us know if you need anything.

I agree, I don't know why physician-assisted suicide is illegal and I don't understand why life is always the desired outcome when there are clearly better outcomes (not suffering).
 
Sorry for your pain (and your grandmothers). I think there is a lot of truth to your post. It is one of the most difficult lines to draw in the sand that I know.

I think we as a nation value breathing over living. You can see it in how we treat all our serious illnesses. I think we would be a lot better off focusing more on quality of life rather than merely length of life.
 
Thanks for thoughts everyone...honestly I was posting more to vent than anything.

Rev...good point on the grey line. I have thought about that a lot. There are some people that would have been looking for a physician-assisted end when they got the diagnoses 25 years ago. No doubt there is a slippery slope. What is the line? I have no idea but I am convinced that there is a line. There is a line when merciful end is much better than this.
 
Yea, the (permissive) line is impossible to define. For me (and I'm not saying I couldn't ever move positions) the line comes down to "thou shalt not kill." So that means no assisted-suicide, no abortion, no death penalty, no war/murder/killing. But as others have suggested, our medical system and cultural mindset is to preserve/prolong life at all costs (unless you don't like the person, then kill them)- so often there were possible "exit ramps" before the situation gets terrible, but not always. And it's those "not always" situations that are toughest. Grace to you, your wife's grandmother, and your family.
 
SnD, I feel your pain and don't have a good answer to your question. When my GF's grandmother (who also raised her) was in the hospital and it became clear that it was the end I had the same thought that we wouldn't treat a dog like that.
 
Living wills are the backstop for the "sliding slope" strawman that so often comes up in these cases. Have a directive about what to do. A true physician, who has embraced the concepts behind the Hippocratic Oath, will understand and should step in and do what's right once he sees what the patient's intentions are. When that can't be communicated by the patient, the directive speaks for them.

And respect for having the juice to post this. There's really not much anyone can say which will make the situation better or alleviate your family's pain and frustration. Hang in there.
 
94Deac said:
Living wills are the backstop for the "sliding slope" strawman that so often comes up in these cases. Have a directive about what to do. A true physician, who has embraced the concepts behind the Hippocratic Oath, will understand and should step in and do what's right once he sees what the patient's intentions are. When that can't be communicated by the patient, the directive speaks for them.

And respect for having the juice to post this. There's really not much anyone can say which will make the situation better or alleviate your family's pain and frustration. Hang in there.
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It's also a backstop (an imperfect one at that) that a lot of people don't have access to.
 
RChildress107 said:
It's also a backstop (an imperfect one at that) that a lot of people don't have access to.
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In what sense? With the growth of sites like Legal Zoom and even those which offer free templates for living wills/directives, more people now than ever have access to it. Sure the internet-accessibility issue is a possibility albeit less and less. But it's not like we're talking about taking a ride on the Space Shuttle. I guess if it's important enough to you and your family, you'll make it happen.
 
I'm interested to hear the opinion of some of the board physicians. It's hard for me to really appreciate the weight of these decisions in the abstract.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I'm interested to hear the opinion of some of the board physicians. It's hard for me to really appreciate the weight of these decisions in the abstract.
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This is a really interesting Radiolab on the topic, if you haven't heard it before

http://www.radiolab.org/story/262588-bitter-end/

We turn to doctors to save our lives -- to heal us, repair us, and keep us healthy. But when it comes to the critical question of what to do when death is at hand, there seems to be a gap between what we want doctors to do for us, and what doctors want done for themselves.

Producer Sean Cole introduces us to Joseph Gallo, a doctor and professor at Johns Hopkins University who discovered something striking about what doctors were not willing to do to save their own lives. As part of the decades-long Johns Hopkins Precursors Study, Gallo found himself asking the study's aging doctor-subjects questions about death. Their answers, it turns out, don't sync up with the answers most of us give.
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RJKarl said:
Everyone can have access if they want one.
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I mean everyone has access to an I.D. if they want one too.

Living Wills can be costly, take time to fill out, would require updating as circumstances or intentions change. I'd also imagine that free online services would be more susceptible to fraud.

Hospital forms don't do you any good if you don't have the mental capacity to sign them when you get to the hospital.

The fear is doctors and family members conspiring to manipulate individuals in a lot of pain. I'm all for giving people a choice in how to live the final days of their life, I just think the autonomy of that choice should be protected at all costs. I don't trust an online living will to offer that protection.
 
I thought you were talking about living wills.

There are some easy, basic that can be found.
 
RChildress107 said:
I'm all for giving people a choice in how to live the final days of their life
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I get that, and am partial to that side as well. Though the Christian theological/ethical side of me questions whether or not we've fooled ourselves into the thinking we have power over things that we, in reality, don't- in this case, death. We like to think that we're in control, and if left unchecked, our fears create idols.
 
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