agreed. in similar a vein, when my mother was belittled and accosted by her small group for being a kerry supporter it really turned me off. it is amazing what the religious can do to undermine religion (maybe more so in this country than they can to bolster it).
Pit Religious Demographics
- Thread starter OliveGardenDeac
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agreed. in similar a vein, when my mother was belittled and accosted by her small group for being a kerry supporter it really turned me off. it is amazing what the religious can do to undermine religion (maybe more so in this country than they can to bolster it).
HeavyPetter
Carnal Decadence
What is the meaning of this poll? To whom will you report the findings.
Those of you not voting or voting for no God better think about the story of Peter and the cock crowing.
Those of you not voting or voting for no God better think about the story of Peter and the cock crowing.
KickballDeac
Bernie Eskimo Bro
I've more or less been an atheist since 8th grade, though admittedly I didn't feel comfortable using that word back then because I thought of it as "dirty". I do remember having a sort of epiphany while sitting in my English class. I was brought up Catholic and had completed CCD (though was never confirmed because my parents had a falling out with our church in town--I don't really know the details). I guess I noticed a disconnect within my family between how they tried to teach me about church, yet we almost never attended regular services. And then I think the next thing I became aware of was multiculturalism. My hometown had a fair Jewish population and many of my friends and classmates were Jewish. Were they going to be punished for not believing Christ was the savior? I wondered. And what about Buddhists and Hindus that we had learned about in social studies around this time? I couldn't imagine so. I guess a dissonance had been festering in me from pretty early on, in addition to inconvenient middle school boners.
RevDeac06
OGBoards Chaplain
Reading this thread frustrates me and makes me sad. The religion (and I'm speaking of Christianity) that is rejected isn't orthodox or rationale. It isn't my faith, and my and large, it isn't the faith that I've grown up with in the Episcopal Church. Given the choice between some of the religious ideals presented in this thread and agnosticism/atheism, I'd be right there with you all in option 3. And it's not your fault for not "understanding faith enough," it's the Church's fault for not proclaiming and teaching it. It's the faithfuls' fault for turning religion into a means to maintain the status quo, to stay in power, to care about themselves more than others. I guess what I'm saying, without trying to convert anyone, is this- please know that the religion that you've left isn't a religion deserving of your time/efforts/passions. But there is hope out there for religion when we let religion be about something bigger than ourselves and our own self-interests.
sailordeac
Well-known member
I'd draw a clearer distinction between atheism and agnosticism. Atheism to me involves a direct assertion that there is no God. God's lack of existence is treated as fact. Agnosticism is an assertion that based on the evidence we have, we cannot say with any degree of certainty, or even confidence, that God exists. Agnosticism leaves open the possibility that at some later time we may obtain further evidence and be able to conclude that God in fact exists. To me there is a big difference between those two positions.
ipitytheblue
...
To me, the difference is faith. Atheism requires faith that I don't have, same as Deism.
ThinkingWithMyDeac
Well-known member
Nice post, and I am sure someone in your position can only be sadden by a poll in which 40% are rejecting faith. I often say to people that I have no problem with faith and religion but I have a huge problem with organized religion. Organized religion does exactly what you said, tries to maintain their power and somewhere along the way it became the status quo. I'm curious of the other people who stated they believe in God, how many of them are actively participating in organized religion. It always seemed nice to me that religion was suppose to unite and bring together people of similar faiths to share experiences and learn from each other. Somehow in today's world most churches don't foster learning, expression of ideas, outside influences etc... Instead they are manipulative entirely human and in a world that tries to advance societal issues downright evil in the crutch they provide for bigot, sexist, and racist views. Obviously there are still good ones out there, yours I am sure, but it appears they are losing out.
sailordeac
Well-known member
What does organized religion have to do with God? It seems to me that much of the time any connection between organized religion and God is purely coincidental. Organized religion is often primarily concerned with culture, society, politics and economics, and God is there as a kind of cover story.
Deadbolt
Well-known member
Went with #2 because of the wording life force. I think there's something beneath it all that holds the universe together, I just don't believe it's some benevolent, anthropomorphic entity that's concerned with how good a people we are or if we're worshiping it enough. I guess I'm somewhere between 2 and 3.
As for why this generation (the millenials, is it?) has much less of an attachment to religion is thanks in large part to the access to information. We have unprecedented access to information about millions of people and their faith, and the history of faith around the world. It's easy to believe in a chosen religion when that's all you know. But when you have access to thousands of religions, both current and past, and you're able to compare them and challenge them against one another, the threads of those religions start to unravel.
As for why this generation (the millenials, is it?) has much less of an attachment to religion is thanks in large part to the access to information. We have unprecedented access to information about millions of people and their faith, and the history of faith around the world. It's easy to believe in a chosen religion when that's all you know. But when you have access to thousands of religions, both current and past, and you're able to compare them and challenge them against one another, the threads of those religions start to unravel.
Deadbolt
Well-known member
Exclusivity doesn't help, either. Whoever said Church had become a country club for Christians isn't wrong.
I'm in the same boat as many of you. I grew up in a very religious household. I went to a christian(Mennonite) school for 12 years, church and youth group until I was about 18, etc.. I would say that early on, I wanted to be religious and believe in god. It just never took with me and eventually it came to be more of an annoyance than something I enjoyed. It was difficult for me to sit through church, bible class, youth group and be told to believe all these things from the Bible.
I'd say my senior year of high school I finally began to realize that I was probably an atheist. In retrospect, I had been for quite some time. It was just the stigma attached to the word that prevented me from associating myself with it.
It's taken a long time for me to be comfortable with my atheism, especially surrounded by my religious family. I'm appreciative of the structured way in which I was raised, and the moral lessons I was taught. In retrospect, I wish I knew back then what I know now.
I'd say my senior year of high school I finally began to realize that I was probably an atheist. In retrospect, I had been for quite some time. It was just the stigma attached to the word that prevented me from associating myself with it.
It's taken a long time for me to be comfortable with my atheism, especially surrounded by my religious family. I'm appreciative of the structured way in which I was raised, and the moral lessons I was taught. In retrospect, I wish I knew back then what I know now.
WakeGal
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Reading this, thinking about my past, and then the conversation with my pastors - I have to wonder if a part of the issue is that kids are getting burnt out by the church and activities. By the end of high school, I was definitely burnt out and during college only went to church when I was home. After I few years, I got back involved but have been careful not to over extend myself. After talking with my pastors, they mentioned that the age of burn out seems to be decreasing and that they have definitely seen it in high school and college age kids, especially over achievers.
Deadbolt
Well-known member
Man, I'm right with you in this respect. I gave out on the religion I had been instilled with in high school as well. To this day I just have to clamp down on my lips around my family. My family, especially my parents, are strongly religious, and I can't imagine the hurt and outrage they would feel towards me if I piped up about my real beliefs. It's a big part of why I moved away from home, because there the religious community IS the community.
RevDeac06
OGBoards Chaplain
Organized religion has much to do with God- it's just been corrupted. You might say that the Constitution is about liberty and justice, but looking at Washington, you might as easily say "what does organized government have to do with justice and liberty?" People like power>people are greedy>people corrupt institutions for their own purposes.
Here's a modern day parable-
"The Parable Of The Lifesaving Station"
On a dangerous seacoast where shipwrecks often occur there was once a crude little lifesaving station. The building was just a hut, and there was only one boat, but the few devoted members kept a constant watch over the sea, and with no thought for themselves, they went out day or night tirelessly searching for the lost.
Many lives were saved by this wonderful little station, so that it became famous. Some of those who were saved, and various others in the surrounding areas, wanted to become associated with the station and give of their time and money and effort for the support of its work. New boats were bought and new crews were trained. The little
lifesaving station grew.
Some of the new members of the lifesaving station were unhappy that the building was so crude and so poorly equipped. They felt that a more comfortable place should be provided as the first refuge of those saved from the sea. They replaced the emergency cots with beds and put better furniture in an enlarged building. Now the lifesaving station became a popular gathering place for its members, and they redecorated it beautifully and furnished it as a sort of club.
Less of the members were now interested in going to sea on lifesaving missions, so they hired life boat crews to do this work.
The mission of lifesaving was still given lip-service but most were too busy or lacked the necessary commitment to take part in the lifesaving activities personally.
About this time a large ship was wrecked off the coast, and the hired crews brought in boat loads of cold, wet and half-drowned people.
They were dirty and sick, some had skin of a different color, some spoke a strange language, and the beautiful new club was considerably messed up. So the property committee immediately had a shower house built outside the club where victims of shipwreck could be cleaned up before coming inside.
At the next meeting, there was a split in the club membership. Most of the members wanted to stop the club's lifesaving activities as being unpleasant and a hindrance to the normal pattern of the club.
But some members insisted that lifesaving was their primary purpose and pointed out that they were still called a lifesaving station. But they were finally voted down and told that if they wanted to save the life of all various kinds of people who were shipwrecked in those waters, they could begin their own lifesaving station down the coast. They did.
As the years went by, the new station experienced the same changes that had occurred in the old. They evolved into a club and yet another lifesaving station was founded.
If you visit the seacoast today you will find a number of exclusive clubs along that shore. Shipwrecks are still frequent in those waters, but now most of the people drown.
ETA- I am not the author of this parable.
I don't think I was burnt out. I don't think I was ever interested in the first place. I tried to have my own personal relationship with god, but it all felt like a sham to me.
RevDeac06
OGBoards Chaplain
Orthodox religion isn't exclusive, but sadly it's become just that. Inclusive theology (salvation/Kingdom/blessing for all, but through the 2nd person of the Trinity) IMO makes more sense, and is better rooted in Scripture, Reason, and Tradition (can you tell I'm Anglican?).
I'm #3. My story is basically the same. Grew up having to go to Episcopal church every Sunday (Sorry RevDeac06). I also went to a super religious summer camp for 5 years. I never found anything rewarding about church, but I really did try to by a person of faith and spiritual. I made a slow transition from attempting to being spiritual to becoming agnostic (ages 18-37) Then a pretty fast transition from agnostic to atheist (ages 37-39). Like TW and deadbolt there was difficulty in accepting atheism. It just seemed to have a negative connotation growing up, and there is still plenty of people that think I'm agnostic. It just easier to not flaunt being an atheist in the conservative and fairly religious community I live in.
Me too. I tried for years. There was never anything there.
AnonymousDeac
Well-known member
What led your rapid transformation from agnostic to atheist?