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Police arrest man who was videotaping them, then shoot his dog

we did go over this before via pm. we agreed to disagree. i don't need to know the particulars of the budget of W-S to know my point is valid, just a bit of common sense. besides, county, state, or municipality, they all have a LEO agency.

but since you call me out, let's talk about DH's post. so if the county budgets 50 mil to the school system, that means they've already factored in the revenue they'll get on average from tickets. If those tickets stopped being written, what will officials need to do to the budget? see how this works?
please stop being dumb, b/c ur not, and i actually think ur pretty cool fwiw.

in reply to the bolded, yes if no tickets are written then whoever gets the revenue, regardless of how it's set up financially or from an accounting perspetive, would possibly get less. However, it's not like these amounts are budgeted aggressively. Past trends and performance are used to make very conservative estimates. It would require a massive reduction in the amount of tickets written to make any substantial dent. That is not a likely reality. People are always going to speed, get into accidents, etc.
 
how much money is that in portland? .2% of what did you say, half billion? that's a lot of money.

.2% of a half billion, or to be more specific in this case, $1.16 million.

The police bureau has a budget of about $160 million. Even if the bureau directly received all of that .2% ($1.16mil) from the general fund, it would still constitute less than 1% of the bureau's budget or for a more tangible example, 10 officers in their entirety (salary, benefits, retirement, all related equipment/uniforms/supplies/phone/portion of vehicle/overhead).

...obviously this is all Portland-specific (and public info).
 
truth of the matter is legislature needs to pass more sensible laws, a ton of laws need to be repealed, police should simply choose not to enforce the stupid laws (they already do this for some laws, they need to do it for more--as my atty said "they could just not do their jobs") police should start carrying tire irons and jacks, and be more concerned with mediating and problem solving than arresting, tell less lies, bully less people, and stop breaking the law themselves in order to catch others that are (which is pretty universally accepted in policing) and also the system as a whole needs to be a lot less concerned with punishment and more concerned with rehabilitation.

do all those things and most people wont have a problem with cops. and honestly something needs to be done to attract people with educations b/c currently the job appeals most to ignorant people and the ones that get an on the job education are then promoted off the street, which is where they sort of need to be.

This is the only thing you've said that I even remotely agree with.

You see plenty of times guys that get run out of job after job or can't seem to find a way to earn a living enter the police force....not that all LEO's are that way, but I know quite a few guys that couldn't land anywhere else head to the local police department. And I do think that sometimes lends itself to cops with a chip on their shoulder after being passed over and kicked around by everyone and every job they've had, and once they get in a position of power, that can lead to some cocky SOBs....

BUT, that is nowhere near the majority of cops, and I know plenty that aren't like that...and plenty that are educated and have basic common sense and decency that stay on the street.
 
This is the only thing you've said that I even remotely agree with.

You see plenty of times guys that get run out of job after job or can't seem to find a way to earn a living enter the police force....not that all LEO's are that way, but I know quite a few guys that couldn't land anywhere else head to the local police department. And I do think that sometimes lends itself to cops with a chip on their shoulder after being passed over and kicked around by everyone and every job they've had, and once they get in a position of power, that can lead to some cocky SOBs....

BUT, that is nowhere near the majority of cops, and I know plenty that aren't like that...and plenty that are educated and have basic common sense and decency that stay on the street.

Good post..Thanks, Slim....
 
This is the only thing you've said that I even remotely agree with.

You see plenty of times guys that get run out of job after job or can't seem to find a way to earn a living enter the police force....not that all LEO's are that way, but I know quite a few guys that couldn't land anywhere else head to the local police department. And I do think that sometimes lends itself to cops with a chip on their shoulder after being passed over and kicked around by everyone and every job they've had, and once they get in a position of power, that can lead to some cocky SOBs....

BUT, that is nowhere near the majority of cops, and I know plenty that aren't like that...and plenty that are educated and have basic common sense and decency that stay on the street.

well everything i wrote in the post you quoted sounds pretty sensible to me. cops don't arrest people for giving blowjobs, but that is illegal...why can't the stop making arrests for other non-violent crimes that lack direct moral implications? and why does the legislature task them with impossible things like trying to stop people from giving head in the first place? repeal the stupid laws and cops won't need to do stupid things to try and enforce them.

carrying tire irons and car jacks is just common sense, and will do a lot to make the words on the side of the squad car ring less hollow (though until people come to see cops in a different light the only practical way to do this is for cops who work in pairs). that alone would change a lot of attitudes and generate a lot of goodwill, and it's easy and inexpensive to do.

as far as lying, it's really one of the basic elements of their jobs, and they become masters of it. sure it helps them enforce the law better, but it's disgusting to hear the hollow threats and the pseudo "let's be friends" or "i've got your best interests in mind, you can tell me, don't worry." When they do that to catch people who legitimately pose a danger to others or who are considered by the vast majority of the population to be doing something immoral, that's one thing, but usually they do it to catch drug offenders and underage drinking and other pretty benign offenses that again really don't require protecting the general population, rehabilitating the offender, or punishing the individual--which are the only three reasons to lock someone up, and the rehab part is obviously a joke in our criminal justice system. in some forward thinking places in europe, rehabilitation can actually be accomplished. in our country it usually has the opposite effect when someone is locked up, which is one of the reasons arresting people usually does more harm than good.

mediating problems rather than thinking the way to solve everything is with citations and handcuffs and violence is also just common sense. we lock up more people as a % and as an absolute figure than either china or russia, two historically authoritarian communist states...think about that. and china has 1.7B people. when you arrest people you remove their potential to be economically productive, sometimes for their entire lives. it doesn't make sense to do that unless the person is doing something dangerous to others or widely accepted to be immoral.

also, standing in the way of the truth is bullshit. so like when a cop says he saw me with my seatbelt off when he didn't, or when two different officers from two different agencies decline to help someone obtain a video tape that will exonerate them because they don't want to interfere with the charging officers attempt to impeach someone's character, or when the arresting officer is shown proof through the window that the charges literally cannot be true and that officer says "you know i really don't necessarily want to arrest you, but this piece of paper says i have to.." (as he's realizing he's playing an active role in the miscarrage of justice) that sort of stuff wins you no friends. the degree of confirmation bias exhibited by a typical human is pretty extreme when not educated to guard against it. in policing this can have fairly disastrous consequences.

as far as breaking the law either literally or the spirit of it to catch other people breaking the law...it just makes them hypocritical, and not many people like hypocrites.

lastly, if the jails weren't full of minorities and poor people and mentally ill people, it would be easier to believe that the law is being applied evenly and fairly and, well, justly.

i hope you and others realize that almost all the negative consequences associated with illicit drug use are actually products of our societies attitudes and policies towards said substances and are not germane to the actual substance itself. also, consider that if you exercise your rights as enumerated in the constitution, LEOs typically view that as the subject is being uncooperative and is often the starting point of a deteriorating exchange, when the constitution is ostensibly what they are trying to uphold, it seems ironic to say the least.

i want to know how old you are, your occupation, and what your degree is in if you don't mind. i dont know why you can't get on board with the rest of this stuff. maybe it's simply because you're predisposed to disagree with me.
 
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Why are those policemen carrying what appear to be H&K MP5 submachine guns?
 
This isn't a thread in which we talk about the details of the event in question. It's a thread to vent about cops.
 
OK...

well everything i wrote in the post you quoted sounds pretty sensible to me. cops don't arrest people for giving blowjobs, but that is illegal...why can't the stop making arrests for other non-violent crimes that lack direct moral implications? and why does the legislature task them with impossible things like trying to stop people from giving head in the first place? repeal the stupid laws and cops won't need to do stupid things to try and enforce them.

I totally agree that there are many many laws on the books that are impractical...But what chaps me are laws designed simply to make money such as motor vehicle inspection...

carrying tire irons and car jacks is just common sense, and will do a lot to make the words on the side of the squad car ring less hollow (though until people come to see cops in a different light the only practical way to do this is for cops who work in pairs). that alone would change a lot of attitudes and generate a lot of goodwill, and it's easy and inexpensive to do.

Several of us carry jumper cables and car door unlock tools...And yes I've changed a citizens tire...

as far as lying, it's really one of the basic elements of their jobs, and they become masters of it. sure it helps them enforce the law better, but it's disgusting to hear the hollow threats and the pseudo "let's be friends" or "i've got your best interests in mind, you can tell me, don't worry." When they do that to catch people who legitimately pose a danger to others or who are considered by the vast majority of the population to be doing something immoral, that's one thing, but usually they do it to catch drug offenders and underage drinking and other pretty benign offenses that again really don't require protecting the general population, rehabilitating the offender, or punishing the individual--which are the only three reasons to lock someone up, and the rehab part is obviously a joke in our criminal justice system. in some forward thinking places in europe, rehabilitation can actually be accomplished. in our country it usually has the opposite effect when someone is locked up, which is one of the reasons arresting people usually does more harm than good.

C'mon now, I understand you don't care for LEOs but the lying part is a bit over the top...I've been to over 3000 hours of training but I've yet to take the lying class...Yes, as an undercover officer I have to lied that I use drugs or I'm not a cop, but surely you see that telling a dealer that I'm a cop won't net many results...And the drug thing does more harm than you can imagine...Break-ins, robberies, larcenies, murder all to support this habit, not to mention broken families and physical abuse from being under the influence or wired from not being high...

mediating problems rather than thinking the way to solve everything is with citations and handcuffs and violence is also just common sense. we lock up more people as a % and as an absolute figure than either china or russia, two historically authoritarian communist states...think about that. and china has 1.7B people. when you arrest people you remove their potential to be economically productive, sometimes for their entire lives. it doesn't make sense to do that unless the person is doing something dangerous to others or widely accepted to be immoral.

Again I totally agree that locking everyone up is not the solution for every offense...

also, standing in the way of the truth is bullshit. so like when a cop says he saw me with my seatbelt off when he didn't, or when two different officers from two different agencies decline to help someone obtain a video tape that will exonerate them because they don't want to interfere with the charging officers attempt to impeach someone's character, or when the arresting officer is shown proof through the window that the charges literally cannot be true and that officer says "you know i really don't necessarily want to arrest you, but this piece of paper says i have to.." (as he's realizing he's playing an active role in the miscarrage of justice) that sort of stuff wins you no friends. the degree of confirmation bias exhibited by a typical human is pretty extreme when not educated to guard against it. in policing this can have fairly disastrous consequences.

as far as breaking the law either literally or the spirit of it to catch other people breaking the law...it just makes them hypocritical, and not many people like hypocrites.

lastly, if the jails weren't full of minorities and poor people and mentally ill people, it would be easier to believe that the law is being applied evenly and fairly and, well, justly.


i hope you and others realize that almost all the negative consequences associated with illicit drug use are actually products of our societies attitudes and policies towards said substances and are not germane to the actual substance itself. also, consider that if you exercise your rights as enumerated in the constitution, LEOs typically view that as the subject is being uncooperative and is often the starting point of a deteriorating exchange, when the constitution is ostensibly what they are trying to uphold, it seems ironic to say the least.

i want to know how old you are, your occupation, and what your degree is in if you don't mind. i dont know why you can't get on board with the rest of this stuff. maybe it's simply because you're predisposed to disagree with me.
 
i agree with all of that bubba except the lying....they simply do it all the time, especially to people who are easily intimidated. no there isn't lying 101, but let me give yet another example (as if the made up larceny charge and the anecdotal story about the "i saw his red eyes as i passed him in an intersection at night," and the "i saw you at the intersection w/o ur seatbelt on but since u subponeaed the tape were gonna drop this because we don't remember you..never mind that you don't need to remember me because there is a video tape which would jog your memory anyway). i wrecked my car about 6 months ago. i had beer in the car, and one of the bottles broke. since i could get an open container ticket for that, and since i view police as scary and unpredictable, i took the broken bottle out of my car and tossed it, and put the remaining five in my trunk. cop comes up to me and says he knows i've been drinking and if i don't admit to it it will be 10x worse for me.

well, three cops later, a 0.0, and an easily passed sobriety test and the police are telling me how "lucky" i am not to get a DUI. after the first two realized i wasn't going to bend over for them, the third tried to "be my friend," you know the routine, but of course when he asked to search i gave him a flat no. he said he thought i had something illegal in the trunk, this is after i passed all their tests btw, i asked him why he would assume bad faith, but then again that is his job, to assume bad faith.

anyway this is not well written but how am i lucky? explain that to me? cuz i didn't feel all that lucky to have totaled my car like an idiot.

and i haven't even touched on the exaggerations you all make when your trying to throw the book at someone...which i could also pretty easily go into. for example, if someone puts their hand on you after patting you down--and thus knows you are not dangerous--and you're not under arrest at that time, and you jerk away from the cop, that's obstruction/resisting if said officer feels like it. just because you take a step back and shrug off his hand, which i believe is my right (everyone has done that at some point to someone else in their lives, but only a minority of people have to pay for that for the rest of their lives), and that is quite literally all i did wrt that, i get charged with a MD that makes it look like I am somehow violent.

that is cool that you've changed someone's tire, but we have already established you're a bit wiser and probably, i'm guessing, better educated than most police officers in this state. probably a bit more mellow too since you have to be near retirement age. you're just not a typical police officer from what i can tell IMO, but then again i never met you 30 years ago at night with my characteristic red eyes.
 
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well everything i wrote in the post you quoted sounds pretty sensible to me. cops don't arrest people for giving blowjobs, but that is illegal...why can't the stop making arrests for other non-violent crimes that lack direct moral implications? and why does the legislature task them with impossible things like trying to stop people from giving head in the first place? repeal the stupid laws and cops won't need to do stupid things to try and enforce them.

carrying tire irons and car jacks is just common sense, and will do a lot to make the words on the side of the squad car ring less hollow (though until people come to see cops in a different light the only practical way to do this is for cops who work in pairs). that alone would change a lot of attitudes and generate a lot of goodwill, and it's easy and inexpensive to do.

as far as lying, it's really one of the basic elements of their jobs, and they become masters of it. sure it helps them enforce the law better, but it's disgusting to hear the hollow threats and the pseudo "let's be friends" or "i've got your best interests in mind, you can tell me, don't worry." When they do that to catch people who legitimately pose a danger to others or who are considered by the vast majority of the population to be doing something immoral, that's one thing, but usually they do it to catch drug offenders and underage drinking and other pretty benign offenses that again really don't require protecting the general population, rehabilitating the offender, or punishing the individual--which are the only three reasons to lock someone up, and the rehab part is obviously a joke in our criminal justice system. in some forward thinking places in europe, rehabilitation can actually be accomplished. in our country it usually has the opposite effect when someone is locked up, which is one of the reasons arresting people usually does more harm than good.

mediating problems rather than thinking the way to solve everything is with citations and handcuffs and violence is also just common sense. we lock up more people as a % and as an absolute figure than either china or russia, two historically authoritarian communist states...think about that. and china has 1.7B people. when you arrest people you remove their potential to be economically productive, sometimes for their entire lives. it doesn't make sense to do that unless the person is doing something dangerous to others or widely accepted to be immoral.

also, standing in the way of the truth is bullshit. so like when a cop says he saw me with my seatbelt off when he didn't, or when two different officers from two different agencies decline to help someone obtain a video tape that will exonerate them because they don't want to interfere with the charging officers attempt to impeach someone's character, or when the arresting officer is shown proof through the window that the charges literally cannot be true and that officer says "you know i really don't necessarily want to arrest you, but this piece of paper says i have to.." (as he's realizing he's playing an active role in the miscarrage of justice) that sort of stuff wins you no friends. the degree of confirmation bias exhibited by a typical human is pretty extreme when not educated to guard against it. in policing this can have fairly disastrous consequences.

as far as breaking the law either literally or the spirit of it to catch other people breaking the law...it just makes them hypocritical, and not many people like hypocrites.

lastly, if the jails weren't full of minorities and poor people and mentally ill people, it would be easier to believe that the law is being applied evenly and fairly and, well, justly.

i hope you and others realize that almost all the negative consequences associated with illicit drug use are actually products of our societies attitudes and policies towards said substances and are not germane to the actual substance itself. also, consider that if you exercise your rights as enumerated in the constitution, LEOs typically view that as the subject is being uncooperative and is often the starting point of a deteriorating exchange, when the constitution is ostensibly what they are trying to uphold, it seems ironic to say the least.

i want to know how old you are, your occupation, and what your degree is in if you don't mind. i dont know why you can't get on board with the rest of this stuff. maybe it's simply because you're predisposed to disagree with me.

WTF are you talking about? Are you comparing selling drugs to getting a blow job? Cops aren't busting people for selling some pot to a friend, and they aren't busting some dude from getting a blowjob from his girl, as long as they aren't stupid enough to do it right in front of a cop. If you sell drugs to someone you don't know or solicit a BJ from someone you don't know, and that someone turns out to be a cop, you are probably getting arrested in either case. tl; dr after that comment.
 
Break-ins, robberies, larcenies, murder all to support this habit, not to mention broken families and physical abuse from being under the influence or wired from not being high...

actually i do want to respond to this specifically, and this goes to qcdeac as well who if my post wasn't tl;dr would have seen i already pointed this out.. the robberies, larcenies, and murders are caused by the laws and those who enforce them. these consequences are not germane to nearly all of these drugs..and the drugs we schedule is so arbitrary to begin with, as i've said i know of all sorts of Rx drugs that are a lot worse than any street drug i've seen granted i've not seen them all, and i've never associated with anyone except middle class people, but i can assure you most if not all the negative consequences are a result of how society treats the problem.

i can make a very compelling hypothetical example for this by supposing we made cigarettes schedule one tomorrow if i need to.

as far as the broken familes, well i'd argue jailing the breadwinner or a spouse or child, and the subsequent financial and mental stresses does a lot more to break a family than any drug. as far as physical abuse from being high, alcohol is much more likely to cause this than any drug i've seen (even the Rx ones) and we don't schedule that. but, if we removed the stigma and the illegality it's not a stretch to imagine addicts could be more easily identified and treated. it would also eliminate the counter culture you indirectly reference...

to be clear, i actually think recreational drug use is bad. i have never endorsed or condoned any drug use that i am aware of. i'm simply saying if you wanna reduce the harmful effects of drugs we're doing it almost diametrically opposite to what we should be doing.

so yes qc, at the end of the day if i choose to smoke opium it's not a lot different than if i get a blowjob or if i take a tylenol (which kills many more people a year than any scheduled drug). btw what's wrong with soliciting a bj from someone? i know it's illegal to pay someone for it, but if i pay someone for it and video tape it then it's apparently all good, cuz that's what porn is.
 
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actually i do want to respond to this specifically, and this goes to qcdeac as well who if my post wasn't tl;dr would have seen i already pointed this out.. the robberies, larcenies, and murders are caused by the laws and those who enforce them. these consequences are not germane to nearly all of these drugs..and the drugs we schedule is so arbitrary to begin with, as i've said i know of all sorts of Rx drugs that are a lot worse than any street drug i've seen granted i've not seen them all, and i've never associated with anyone except middle class people, but i can assure you most if not all the negative consequences are a result of how society treats the problem.

i can make a very compelling hypothetical example for this by supposing we made cigarettes schedule one tomorrow if i need to.

as far as the broken familes, well i'd argue jailing the breadwinner or a spouse or child, and the subsequent financial and mental stresses does a lot more to break a family than any drug. as far as physical abuse from being high, alcohol is much more likely to cause this than any drug i've seen (even the Rx ones) and we don't schedule that. but, if we removed the stigma and the illegality it's not a stretch to imagine addicts could be more easily identified and treated. it would also eliminate the counter culture you indirectly reference...

to be clear, i actually think recreational drug use is bad. i have never endorsed or condoned any drug use that i am aware of. i'm simply saying if you wanna reduce the harmful effects of drugs we're doing it almost diametrically opposite to what we should be doing.

so yes qc, at the end of the day if i choose to smoke opium it's not a lot different than if i get a blowjob. btw what's wrong with soliciting a bj from someone? i know it's illegal to pay someone for it, but if i pay someone for it and video tape it then it's apparently all good, cuz that's what porn is.

germans_3.jpg
 
It's illegal lol

about porn? i'm sure it is illegal in the bible belt, i was kind of making a joke...but not really, because this country produces more porn than any other and to my knowledge the people associated with it do not get arrested.

maybe u need a license in california, idk or care, it isn't really relevant to the points i'm making.
 
Take a look at the lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?
 
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