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Possible Wake Forest Coaching Candidates Analysis

Wakeforest22890 said:
UMBC is 5-13 against top 100 teams the last three years under Odom. Miller is 11-15 at UNCG the last three years.
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Cherry-picked. What's Wes' record v. Top 100 for his career at UNCG? You've picked his 3 best years v. Odom's 3 years period.

Also, if you're going to shit on Odom for having a low ranked team and Wes for being in the Top 100… then we could read this stat as Odom punches pretty well above his weight and Wes is pretty mediocre, right? I mean they're a Top 100 team, shouldn't they be better than that?
 
mattwfu99 said:
If we're looking at mid-majors, I think we should at least take a look at Matt McMahon of Murray St. and Matt Langel of Colgate.
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Neither one has much power conference experience - just McMahon's grad year at Tenn. Langel did work at both Penn and Temple before going to Colgate.

McMahon did work under and then succeeded Steve Prohm at Murray State.

It does not appear that either one has spent serious time in 5* and 4* recruits living rooms.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Sat next to a guy yesterday at the bar watching some of the UVA-State game who grew up next door to Russell Turner and was friends with him in HS. Said we should take a look at him without any prompting on my part. Also said he interviewed with VCU after Shaka left but they weren’t offering enough money to uproot them from the east coast.
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I had originally been meh on Turner based mainly on thinking his name just came up because of his former Wake connections. However, when you look at his resume, he checks a lot of boxes. Assistant/experience under reputable coaches at Power whatever schools (Wake/Odom & Stanford/Montgomery). NBA experience and ties. And he has done a heck of a job at UC-I, a program with limited historical success.
 
Deacs9394 said:
Cherry-picked. What's Wes' record v. Top 100 for his career at UNCG? You've picked his 3 best years v. Odom's 3 years period.

Also, if you're going to shit on Odom for having a low ranked team and Wes for being in the Top 100… then we could read this stat as Odom punches pretty well above his weight and Wes is pretty mediocre, right? I mean they're a Top 100 team, shouldn't they be better than that?
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I’m sure it’s worse over his whole tenure. I picked the last three years because that’s how long Odom has been at UMBC.
 
Bubble Boy said:
I had originally been meh on Turner based mainly on thinking his name just came up because of his former Wake connections. However, when you look at his resume, he checks a lot of boxes. Assistant/experience under reputable coaches at Power whatever schools (Wake/Odom & Stanford/Montgomery). NBA experience and ties. And he has done a heck of a job at UC-I, a program with limited historical success.
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I agree. I like Turner too. This was my point to Racer...it seems as much as folks like me are accused of favoring folks just because they have Wake ties...there are even more folks on here that dismiss guys with Wake ties out of hand no matter how impressive the resume. Turner's resume is inarguably impressive...and hits every box folks have used to support random mid-major guy.
 
Bubble Boy said:
I had originally been meh on Turner based mainly on thinking his name just came up because of his former Wake connections. However, when you look at his resume, he checks a lot of boxes. Assistant/experience under reputable coaches at Power whatever schools (Wake/Odom & Stanford/Montgomery). NBA experience and ties. And he has done a heck of a job at UC-I, a program with limited historical success.
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I agree - if you support someone in that Odom, Brannen, Smith, Otzelberger world, it's hard to argue that Turner would be a disaster.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I’m sure it’s worse over his whole tenure. I picked the last three years because that’s how long Odom has been at UMBC.
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Ok...but then wouldn't my second point then be true? That with a weaker program Odom has punched better above his weight than Miller? I guess the question is, how many teams has Wes Miller beaten that was better than his team at the time? And how many times has Odom done that?
 
Turner has steadily built UC-Irvine, and he has his best team this year. 28-5 #81. They were #252 when he took over.

My concern would be that he has coached on the West Coast for 19 years. Just wonder about his ACC area recruiting connections at this point. Also, his teams play a slow, defense first-style. This year, UCI ranks 293 in tempo; 152 on offense; 48 on defense (UCI has been in the top 100 defense in each of the last 6 years and 120 or below on offense each year); they won their opening round tourney game yesterday 63-44. Deliberate style of play doesn't bother me, but others may not agree. I can see people losing patience fast with Turner, if WF is losing and playing games in 40s, 50s and 60s for a couple of years, which seems the likely route if WF hired him.
 
Pilchard said:
Turner has steadily built UC-Irvine, and he has his best team this year. 28-5 #81. They were #252 when he took over.

My concern would be that he has coached on the West Coast for 19 years. Just wonder about his ACC area recruiting connections at this point. Also, his teams play a slow, defense first-style. This year, UCI ranks 293 in tempo; 152 on offense; 48 on defense (UCI has been in the top 100 defense in each of the last 6 years and 120 or below on offense each year); they won their opening round tourney game yesterday 63-44. Deliberate style of play doesn't bother me, but others may not agree. I can see people losing patience fast with Turner, if WF is losing and playing games in 40s, 50s and 60s for a couple of years, which seems the likely route if WF hired him.
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Sounds like something like what Odom did at Wake, and Bennett does at UVA. Make the opponent work hard to get a decent shot attempt. Don't get blown out in the first 35 minutes. Steal a win after the last TV timeout.
 
Deacs9394 said:
Ok...but then wouldn't my second point then be true? That with a weaker program Odom has punched better above his weight than Miller? I guess the question is, how many teams has Wes Miller beaten that was better than his team at the time? And how many times has Odom done that?
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UNCG is 15-16 against teams ranked ahead of them when they played. UMBC is 14-25.

Over the last three years (again simply for comparison sakes of three years of Odom’s coaching).
 
Re: Any UMBC vs. UNCG comparisons in terms of program's stature and that UCI hasn't had a lot of "historical success":

Unless a mid-major program has been a power or an absolute dumpster fire for the majority of its existence or the last 20ish years, then I don't think the stature of the program or its historical record matters much at the midmajor level. It's not like many of these programs have a ton of resources behind them, so it's largely an open void for a coach to vault to the top of a conference if he's good enough
 
Deacs9394 said:
Or perhaps rather than dismissing someone with Wake ties because is "LOWF", you actually look at it objectively? Seems to me the argument against Odom is KenPom and that he has Wake ties...that somehow that's a knock.
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Odom’s dad literally coined the phrase LOWF.

I want a coach who has a fire to win and isn’t hampered by our low expectations.
 
I'll take Miller over Odom based on their resumes, although if it comes down to the 2 of them, because one can make an argument either way based solely on their coaching resumes, I think you have to trust your AD to make the decision based on the interview(s), references, and other sources of info.

I do think folks lose sight sometimes that we're talking about UNC-Greensboro. I mean, shit, man. UNC-Greensboro? That is not a basketball powerhouse. I can kind of get UNC-Wilmington being good at basketball, because Wilmington is a fun town. Respectfully, when I think UNC-Greensboro, I think about a school primarily for chicks. To turn that into a successful basketball program is pretty impressive.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
UNCG is 15-16 against teams ranked ahead of them when they played. UMBC is 14-25.

Over the last three years (again simply for comparison sakes of three years of Odom’s coaching).
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That would seem to favor Miller. But again you're only using his three best years. That's after he finally got it going. Odom literally took over one of the worst programs in the country. Like one fo the 10-15 worst in D1 basketball. Relativity matters here. UMBC was awful.
 
Bubble Boy said:
I had originally been meh on Turner based mainly on thinking his name just came up because of his former Wake connections. However, when you look at his resume, he checks a lot of boxes. Assistant/experience under reputable coaches at Power whatever schools (Wake/Odom & Stanford/Montgomery). NBA experience and ties. And he has done a heck of a job at UC-I, a program with limited historical success.
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You may be able to put some weight on Turner's having been on the staff with Ernie Nestor for a least some of those years. Wellman, to the extent he has a vote in this, has shown that he values Nestor's judgment. A good word from him and who knows what happens.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I’m sure it’s worse over his whole tenure. I picked the last three years because that’s how long Odom has been at UMBC.
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I mean, I don't think Wes beat a top 100 team until his 6th year (which is where the last 3 starts), so it is kind of cherry picked to make your guy look better. Although I would still think Odom would be a terrible hire, based on top 100 wins his early trajectory looks better than Wes at a worse school (average KP rank before Wes 216, average KP rank before Odom 285)
 
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