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Presumably OFFICIAL 2016/17 Premier League

TownieDeac said:
A lot of what I like about Dele vs Pogba is the potential a 20 year old with a better conversion rate than Zlatan gives you. Dele is still kind of an idiot tackler and a bit profligate with possession for me, but Pogba's long balls don't really do it for me either. Pogba's goals and assists haven't been there in the league either.

Idk just me. He's a very good player, I just think he's underperforming a bit, and I don't think he's the best central midfielder in the league.
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I agree with that because Juve Pogba last season was better than Pogba this season. He is still dominating matches and controlling games.

I am honestly shocked you guys don't see this.



And not being a fan of Pogba's long switch passes is utterly perplexing to me. They are the closest thing I've seen to Scholes' ability to do the same. Did those not impress you either? It is so hard to hit a 50 yard diagonal ball and put it on a players' foot.
 
vadimivich said:
In fact, a huge reason why United is so far down the goals scored tally this season is because they are trying to play Pogba further forward and he's simply not very good there.
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Just false.

Pogba has played the 6 or 8 much more than he has played the 10 this season. There was like a 3 or 4 game stretch where Mourinho tried him there, it didn't work, and Pogba was back to the 8.
 
Still waiting for those two other CMs that Townie would take over Pogba since Hazard and Mane were LOL bad suggestions.

And I'll even take a 3rd one, should Townie chose to do so, given that I've already shown that Pogba does better things for a CM than Dele -- whom vad correctly pointed out is more of an advanced second striker of sorts. His runs off the ball are what make Dele so good. That and his unbelievably quick feet.
 
deacvision7 said:
Still waiting for those two other CMs that Townie would take over Pogba since Hazard and Mane were LOL bad suggestions.

And I'll even take a 3rd one, should Townie chose to do so, given that I've already shown that Pogba does better things for a CM than Dele -- whom vad correctly pointed out is more of an advanced second striker of sorts. His runs off the ball are what make Dele so good. That and his unbelievably quick feet.
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Wait - you prefer Pogba over Hazard?
 
I don't think he considers Hazard as playing the same role that we are comparing.

Pogba really does play some wonderful balls and isn't very wasteful when he does have it at his feet. I think where I see him lacking is when he gets loose going forward. I can think of a couple of occasions where he's made a brilliant run to get in behind the back 4 and completely gets stonewalled or misses. However, I think in time that will work itself out. But, as far as sitting deeper and playing a holding role, the stats are hard to argue with that he's a very good passer and wins some tackles.

But to claim he's the best CM? No, not even close. It's Kante then the field.
 
So you completely disregard a half point advantage for Pogba over Kante by whoscored?

7.74 v 7.24

I think Kante's is low -- but that is because he contributes virtually nothing in the attacking third. And yes, I know he scored vs United on Monday in the Cup, but blind squirrels find acorns too.


Kante attacking metrics:
0.9 shots a game
0.6 key passes (passes that set up shots) a game
1 goal
0 assists
0.4 fouls suffered per game
1 successful take on dribble per game


He is a wonderful holding midfielder but he isn't a complete midfielder by any stretch of the imagination.
 
deacvision7 said:
So you completely disregard a half point advantage for Pogba over Kante by whoscored?

7.74 v 7.24

I think Kante's is low -- but that is because he contributes virtually nothing in the attacking third. And yes, I know he scored vs United on Monday in the Cup, but blind squirrels find acorns too.


Kante attacking metrics:
0.9 shots a game
0.6 key passes (passes that set up shots) a game
1 goal
0 assists
0.4 fouls suffered per game
1 successful take on dribble per game


He is a wonderful holding midfielder but he isn't a complete midfielder by any stretch of the imagination.
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He's not really a holding midfielder though, he plays more as a box to box destroyer and possession recycler. And yes, he's not very attacking - but he excels at what he does do, and it's something you can build an entire title winning team around. He's BY FAR the best CM in the league, and has been for 2 years now. I thought maybe he was a system specific guy even through the Euros this year (there's plenty of posts you can find here), but he's totally won me over this year at Chelsea. He's just a monster.
 
Kante sucked at the Euros. So did Pogba to be fair.

Martial and Coman (two great players) also sucked. Pretty much all of France was a let down given their talent.
 
And Kante is not box to box. Come on... Keane was box to box. Kante doesn't get forward near as much.
 
I don't have time at work today (unlike 90% of my workdays) to dig it up, but there was a very good paper on the limitations of WhoScored and Sqwawka data and their capacity to measure game impact or be predictive.

I think that's the case sometimes with how stars get rated on those sites. Smaller contributions; things like positional awareness aren't considered.

2 examples I like of this are playing with your head up (Barkley doesn't do this well enough) and creating space for yourself and others. Combining these two contributes to knowing not just what the pass you're making will do, but what the next move is.

Pogba does the latter really well with long balls and really poorly with short passes IMO. Every time I watch him, he booms cross-field passes that generate chances well, but also tends to make short passes that get his players in trouble right away or force the move to break down.
 
Pogba plays 75 passes per game in the Prem. That is 2nd most (J. Henderson 86pg 1st) in the entire league.

So you think he plays, what? 60 long passes a game and can only complete short passes that gets teammates into trouble?

This is so absurd. You're wrong on that criticism.


Next?


I mean, come on guys, give me something that isn't ridiculous. (still waiting for those 4th and 5th CMs you'd rather have than Pogba, Townie)
 
deacvision7 said:
Pogba plays 75 passes per game in the Prem. That is 2nd most (J. Henderson 86pg 1st) in the entire league.

So you think he plays, what? 60 long passes a game and can only complete short passes that gets teammates into trouble?

This is so absurd. You're wrong on that criticism.
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huh? no, i think he plays the 5.5 long balls a game or whatever the stat is above, plays a ton of short one-twos, and also plays a lot of passes that do not help buildup play.

i don't feel the need to give more players i like more than pogba since what you're really asking for is more players that do what pogba do but better. not a lot of players are playing the style and position(s) he does in a weird system like mou's.
 
TownieDeac said:
huh? no, i think he plays the 5.5 long balls a game or whatever the stat is above, plays a ton of short one-twos, and also plays a lot of passes that do not help buildup play.

i don't feel the need to give more players i like more than pogba since what you're really asking for is more players that do what pogba do but better. not a lot of players are playing the style and position(s) he does in a weird system like mou's.
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You said you had five MF players that you'd rather have than Pogba, did you not?

You've named Dele, Kante, and KdB so far. I'm just waiting on the other two.
 
unless you thought hazard and mane are midfield players?

Do you have no others?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
 
I'm only asking you to provide what you said you thought. 5 midfield players in the Prem better than Pogba. That's it.
 
deacvision7 said:
You said you had five MF players that you'd rather have than Pogba, did you not?

You've named Dele, Kante, and KdB so far. I'm just waiting on the other two.
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deacvision7 said:
unless you thought hazard and mane are midfield players?

Do you have no others?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

deacvision7 said:
I'm only asking you to provide what you said you thought. 5 midfield players in the Prem better than Pogba. That's it.
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ask me two more times and i'll answer
 
Are you full of shit or do you have 2 others?


Are you embarrassed to be caught with your pants down and shown to be clueless or do you have two others?



Two. Go!
 
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