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PRISM

Sgt Hulka said:
NYT says it is confirmed that the govt got it.
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Got what? Are you talking about this article?

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/08/...-government-surveillance-efforts.html?hp&_r=0

If so, all it talks about are negotiations, not actual systems. And this:

" In at least two cases, at Google and Facebook, one of the plans discussed was to build separate, secure portals, like a digital version of the secure physical rooms that have long existed for classified information, in some instances on company servers. Through these online rooms, the government would request data, companies would deposit it and the government would retrieve it, people briefed on the discussions said. "

Is a LOT different than the idea of the government being able to monitor ALL communication and traffic on Google and Facebook's servers.
 
IRONY- the RW is nuts about what is going on now but didn't think it was a big deal for the WH to leak the identity of the nation's spy involved in tracking the proliferation of WMDs during the lead up to a war based of the proliferation of WMDs.

You've gotta love the evolution of the right in America:

Bush 41- Outing the identity of covert CIA Agent is treason
Bush 43/all the RW outlets- Outing the identity of the CIA's #1 agent on WMD proliferation is OK
Bush 43 - The Patriot Act doesn't far enough. Warrantless wiretapping and torture are legal. Built AT&T's "secret room" in SF.
Today- Getting warrants and corporate OKs is unacceptable.
 
RJ - shut up about Bush. This isn't about any previous President.
 
RJKarl said:
I'd be stunned if a similar program didn't exist beginning in the early 90s. There's no question all sides have been monitoring the internet since the mid-late 90s.
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It's called Echelon.
 
ONW said:
It's called Echelon.
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That's right. Wasn't that based in England? didn't 60 minutes do a show on it back then?

BBD, what's surprising is the surprise. We had Echelon in the in 90s and this program today. Yes it sucks, but the reality is this has been going on for most of your life and will go on for the rest of it.
 
Wired has an article about two Israeli companies that were tasked with "wiretapping" telecommunications in the United States.

If they did, in fact, install devices inside every telco and are capturing the data traffic across the country, then they really don't need to have Silicon Valley companies cooperate in this effort. They are grabbing the data between points.

And don't think SSL/TLS and other encryption methods will protect you either. The NSA is first and foremost a cryptography agency.
 
RJKarl said:
That's right. Wasn't that based in England? didn't 60 minutes do a show on it back then?

BBD, what's surprising is the surprise. We had Echelon in the in 90s and this program today. Yes it sucks, but the reality is this has been going on for most of your life and will go on for the rest of it.
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So what you are saying is accept it until a Republican is president?
 
If you don't think every major power (and some not so major) is doing/trying to do this, you are being naive.
 
MistyMountains said:
So what you are saying is accept it until a Republican is president?
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I am saying I opposed the Patriot Act then; I oppose it now and will oppose if the next POTUS uses it.

Most here supported the Patriot Act.

I am saying the data gathering is nothing new. Echelon has been used for decades. What's happening now is nothing new. The only aspect that's different is the technology.
 
MistyMountains said:
So what you are saying is accept it until a Republican is president?
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Not really. I suspect he is trying to point out many of those vocally outraged now where either ignorant or naive to the existence of such programs in the past. That neither condones the actions then or now, just requires one to understand the government has been covertly spying on its own people for decades on end now. If anything, it appears they are being a bit more transparent about it. The problem is not that Obama is infringing on our rights, it is that the voting public of this country has allowed both sides of the political aisle to erode our rights for decades in the name of security, so long as the most blatant intrusions are just kept classified. The War on Terror and public support for it, irrespective of what good may have come of it, opened up a near pandora's box of "acceptable" measures to prevent terrorism that are in fact unacceptable. Unfortunately this type of monitoring is just the next extension and until citizens put pressure on their reps to do away with things like the Patriot Act we are forced to live with any grey areas it creates.

Oh and in case the NSA is reading this, I implore you Mr. President to do away with these programs. They violate the very core beliefs the founders of this country held, beliefs they held in part because a superpower of their time became out of control. Do not let history repeat and certainly do not let it be the country that gained independence from the tyrant that turns into the tyrant mere centuries later.
 
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I feel like I heard on NPR yesterday that these denials from Facebook, Google, etc., are basically worthless, because they would not be allowed to disclose the governmental orders that mandated the sharing of data in the first place.

I was dodging traffic at the time, so I may have misheard/misremembered.
 
It might also be that only a few people at these companies know what is going on, not necessarily the most powerful people, and they've been sworn to secrecy.
 
When a leak exposes the government doing reprehensible shit politicians are outraged and demand the leaker be hunted down. When the leaks are meant to provide cover for the administration it's all good.
 
Almost as if Wellman was giving Obama pointers.
 
I wanna know how this does not constitute a lie from National Intelligence Director James Clapper to Congress?
 
The Guardian has published a new slide:
In the interests of aiding the debate over how Prism works, the Guardian is publishing an additional slide from the 41-slide presentation which details Prism and its operation. We have redacted some program names.

The slide, below, details different methods of data collection under the FISA Amendment Act of 2008 (which was renewed in December 2012). It clearly distinguishes Prism, which involves data collection from servers, as distinct from four different programs involving data collection from "fiber cables and infrastructure as data flows past".
Essentially, the slide suggests that the NSA also collects some information under FAA702 from cable intercepts, but that process is distinct from Prism.

Analysts are encouraged to use both techniques of data gathering.

The Guardian's initial reporting of Prism made clear the technology companies denied all knowledge of the program, and did not speculate on whether it would need such co-operation in order to work.

A far fuller picture of the exact operation of Prism, and the other surveillance operations brought to light, is expected to emerge in the coming weeks and months, but this slide gives a clearer picture of what Prism is – and, crucially, isn't.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/08/nsa-surveillance-prism-obama-live?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20full-width-1%20bento-box:Bento%20box:position2#block-51b36893e4b0cc6424372292
 
Here's the new slide:
b444b0a8-4436-4802-921e-5c3177bfc0eb-460x276.jpeg
 
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