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Rep Steve Scalise, 4 Others Shot

The basic concept should be nobody should care what you think or believe as long as it doesn't infringe on someone and the respect they should be granted in public. If you want to burn a gay effigy in the comfort of your own home knock yourself out. However when you leave that home and enter society and public those beliefs should not prevent someone that is gay from enjoying all the same freedoms and respects you do.
 
Wrangor said:
Define anti-gay belief please. Is it anti-gay to believe that someone else is pursuing a wrong path in life? Is it anti-Christian to not believe in Christ as exemplified in the Bible? Is it anti-Muslim to want to convert a Muslim to Christianity? Or anti-Hindu to not give reincarnation any legitimacy?

First of all, you do believe in reincarnation. At least I think you do. If you believe in heaven, you absolutely believe in reincarnation. Your soul (if not some form of your body) have to be reincarnated to leave this life and go into the next. That is the definition of reincarnation.

The way that the gay argument is always framed is inaccurate. It's almost always framed as though born gay, grew up gay, always gay. That simply isn't reality. I personally believe that there are people who were dually born with a desire for the same sex and who have the complete ability to pursue another path. In the same way that I am drawn to all sorts of unhealthy choices that may feel satisfying and fulfilling for a time but are not a proper path.

Why is it not reality? Because your form of belief says it isn't? Even before there was a word being gay, people were gay. In every culture, on every continent, throughout history, people have been gay. Every gay person I've ever met say they were born that way. How do you know they weren't? How many kids and are so strong that they will risk being put out of their family, ridiculed and attacked if that's not they were born?

Does this make me anti-gay? I think people follow all sorts of wrong paths in lives, and at different times I have walked those paths. This doesn't mean that I am anti-"". It means I reserve the right to make a judgement call on what I believe to be right and wrong. I think you deserve that right as well and would think you are anti-Wrangor if your beliefs didn't line up with mine.

Why do so many denominations of the Christian faith accept people as gay? Are only the Christians who believe exactly as you actual Christians?

I completely disagree with the flippancy with which we treat divorce in our country. Does this make me bigoted towards anyone with a divorce? Of course not. I just hold a higher view of marriage and work to support my friends marriages so they don't make the same mistakes other couples have made.

If anything we should think more of our philosophical differences while at the same time make less of ourselves. In most cases Having a different of opinion is only a problem when your goal is to silence those you disagree with. Among many lessons, That is a rule we should take from the civil rights movement more than any. White oppression was the systematic attempt to silence another race, and we should never allow that sort of discourse again.
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The problem with the last paragraph is the the "white oppressors" of the past have morphed into (while not entirely giving up their past) the "gay oppressors" of today. They have passed and continue to pass laws that harms gays in state after state.
 
riscdeac said:
I thought passing gay marriage law was a huge step for gay rights. I guess I'm naive when it comes to all the other discriminatory issues within certain states.

Maybe the addition of transgender has added some confusion for people. I'm confused on that issue. Maybe lumping it all together as in LGBTQA confuses people and they revert back to a simple man and woman relationship because there are so many variables and questions of who and what we are and what's next.

Just some thoughts. Not a hard liner here as I was really stuck on the christian thing.
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What's next? Treating all people with respect, equally and not passing laws to discriminate against those you don't agree with or don't understand.
 
If others would listen to you, things could work. Why do we care about who anyone sleeps with or marries? Why aren't all Americans protected in the same way?

I can't imagine how hard it must be to be a gay person in a small southern town or even in a big city. When you are teenager, if your parents are conservative in their religious beliefs, you have to be incredibly strong to come out. Then there are your friends. How many teens wouldn't give gay kids crap? I can't understand how tough it would be to be sixteen and gay, but it would be incredibly difficult.

Although I definitely believe people are born gay, who cares? If it's a choice, why is Steve's choice to love Jesus protected in the workplace, but his choice to love Jason can get him fired in over two dozen states?
Why can Mary expect Susan, the lesbian police officer to protect bakery, but if Susan and Jane come into the store, she can legally refuse to make their wedding cake?
 
I have never understood the homosexual hate or bigotry. they claim that it is all about "not natural" or against "God's plan" or whatever. the fact of the matter is that a variety of animals also have same sex partners, so it is natural. those that fight against same sex relationship are just talking out their asses and using the bible as a vial for their bigotry.



just because someone against will ask, here is a list of animals that have same sex partners:

Birds - penguins, chickens, mallard, ostrich, seagulls, etc..

Mammals - bears, rats, cats (domestic, lions), non-human primates, dogs, elephants, goats, dolphins, etc..

insects

reptiles - lizards, snakes, turtles

amphibians - frogs

fish


again, i am not sure why it (homosexual relationships) is so upsetting to people. why this is a governmental issue is beyond me.
 
I am convinced 90 percent of it is old people think butt sex is gross.
 
Wrangor said:
Define anti-gay belief please. Is it anti-gay to believe that someone else is pursuing a wrong path in life? Is it anti-Christian to not believe in Christ as exemplified in the Bible? Is it anti-Muslim to want to convert a Muslim to Christianity? Or anti-Hindu to not give reincarnation any legitimacy?

The way that the gay argument is always framed is inaccurate. It's almost always framed as though born gay, grew up gay, always gay. That simply isn't reality. I personally believe that there are people who were dually born with a desire for the same sex and who have the complete ability to pursue another path. In the same way that I am drawn to all sorts of unhealthy choices that may feel satisfying and fulfilling for a time but are not a proper path.
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According to whom?
 
Shooshmoo said:
What Wrangor does not seem to understand is that no one cares what his personal beliefs are. What matters is that he uses those beliefs to actively deny equal rights to people through his vote/party. I mean, obviously it would be better if he did not feel the way he does, but that's not going to change. Only thing that can be done is to convince him that he can believe what he wants without actively fucking up the lives of the people he disagrees with.
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They both matter. I still care if someone is a racist even if they don't act on those racist beliefs to the disadvantage of minorities. The mere fact that people hold racist views is harmful to society.
 
If only Scalise had a pistol strapped to his ankle at 2nd base.
 
Just wanted to point out that no one is talking about gun control. Couple weeks after a guy shoots a rifle into Congressional baseball practice and we're onto the next story. At most, House reps are quietly pursuing more money for personal security.
 
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