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Russia: Doomed or Not Doomed? Discuss.

Ol' Putin definitely sowed the seeds and may be reaping the whirlwind. The rouble seems to have stabilized a bit in the past 24 hours, but it was an economic cluster like this that helped shove Yeltsin out and bring Putin in. Could happen again. Russia's a strange place.
 
vadimivich said:
Russia signed the Budapest treaty and guaranteed the sovereignty of the Ukrainian borders in exchange for their nuclear disarmament.

If you think that Putin's returning 20 years later and snatching territory isn't a horribly destabilizing move in terms of the broader globe...

I'm fully sympathetic to the fucked up cultural issues in Ukraine, but Putin's Russia made this situation far worse, and not just in that region.
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We have a clash between democracy and national identity on the one side and the principle of maintaining borders. I don't think anyone can, or should, tell people that they have to be Ukrainians, when they want to be, and are in fact, Russians.

Just for the record. I'm not particularly a fan of Putin, much less Communists. Certainly Putin deserves part of the blame for the situation in Ukraine but the Ukranian extremists and the West are not blameless either.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Speaking of (and not trying to derail) I met a guy who is from Israel and works for a media company that criticizes other media outlets for their "biased" coverage of the Middle East. Couldn't get out of that conversation fast enough.
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Heaven forbid you speak with someone with life experiences and biases different from your own.
 
sailordeac said:
We have a clash between democracy and national identity on the one side and the principle of maintaining borders. I don't think anyone can, or should, tell people that they have to be Ukrainians, when they want to be, and are in fact, Russians.

Just for the record. I'm not particularly a fan of Putin, much less Communists. Certainly Putin deserves part of the blame for the situation in Ukraine but the Ukranian extremists and the West are not blameless either.
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How far down this rabbit hole are you willing to go? I am just curious because your reasoning basically applies to a wide swath of the globe where it was the Brits and other European powers arbitrarily drawing borders. I am pretty bored at work but even so I am not sure I'd have the time to list all the countries in the middle east, Africa, and Asia that have irrational political boundaries.
 
P4nthers11 said:
How far down this rabbit hole are you willing to go? I am just curious because your reasoning basically applies to a wide swath of the globe where it was the Brits and other European powers arbitrarily drawing borders. I am pretty bored at work but even so I am not sure I'd have the time to list all the countries in the middle east, Africa, and Asia that have irrational political boundaries.
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Well Panthers, yes it is true that the Brits, other Europeans, the Commies, and even representatives of good old Uncle Sam drew all kinds of lines on all kinds of maps and often quite arbitrarily divided historic, national, cultural, religious and language communities from each other and lumped some together with alien communities to suit their own momentary, whims, perceived national or economic interests, or ignorance. This has left a lot of not very satisfactory political boundaries around the world. These have been a source of conflicts and will continue to be a source of conflicts in the future. I don't know why this reality should surprise anyone, or what, if anything, rabbit holes have to do with it. Maybe you would care to try to explain to all of the people around the world, caught on the wrong side of borders, often through no fault of their own, why they should just shut up and endure the "wisdom" of outsiders?
 
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