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Saliva Tests at Routine Traffic Stops

WFcatamount22 said:
Who should give a fuck if people drive high. Studies have shown that THC doesn't impair your abilities to drive, especially among habitual marijuana smokers. Wouldn't it be much more effective to just give people a sobriety test? If you pass your not impaired and if you fail your impaired and should get a DUI. It doesn't matter if your high or not what matters is whether or not you are to impaired to drive a motor vehicle.

There are a bunch of boring old white guys out there who try to compare marijuana use to alcohol (looking at you deac89), when the effects of both substances are actually completely different.
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Im a boring old white guy? Lol look at you with your scientific response. Go change out your bong water
 
Deacs89 said:
So W&B if I am shit house wrecked but a good drunk driver I should just being given a ticket for broken light and be on my way?
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I submit that if you are truly 'shit house wrecked' then you would not be driving very well. But if you are, then yes.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Who should give a fuck if people drive high. Studies have shown that THC doesn't impair your abilities to drive, especially among habitual marijuana smokers. Wouldn't it be much more effective to just give people a sobriety test? If you pass your not impaired and if you fail your impaired and should get a DUI. It doesn't matter if your high or not what matters is whether or not you are to impaired to drive a motor vehicle.

There are a bunch of boring old white guys out there who try to compare marijuana use to alcohol (looking at you deac89), when the effects of both substances are actually completely different.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/health/driving-under-the-influence-of-marijuana.html?_r=0

Interesting article that takes some issue with your statement that "studies show THC doesn't impair your abilities to drive." Article says there are some studies that show that, but the general consensus in the scientific community is a 2 fold increase if THC is present. Article also says that given limited resources we are better off focusing on drunk drivers.
 
bojanglefunk said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/health/driving-under-the-influence-of-marijuana.html?_r=0

Interesting article that takes some issue with your statement that "studies show THC doesn't impair your abilities to drive." Article says there are some studies that show that, but the general consensus in the scientific community is a 2 fold increase if THC is present. Article also says that given limited resources we are better off focusing on drunk drivers.
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Yeah I am a great stoned driver. I'm also a great drunk driver. Doesn't mean I should do it (stopped doing it a long time ago) or that it shouldn't be policed against.
 
bojanglefunk said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/health/driving-under-the-influence-of-marijuana.html?_r=0

Interesting article that takes some issue with your statement that "studies show THC doesn't impair your abilities to drive." Article says there are some studies that show that, but the general consensus in the scientific community is a 2 fold increase if THC is present. Article also says that given limited resources we are better off focusing on drunk drivers.
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Driving with a .05 BAC also in increases your risk of accidents 2 fold and that is completely legal. There is a reason why driving drunk has been a huge public risk while driving stoned hasn't, and it's not because weed is illegal.
 
bojanglefunk said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/health/driving-under-the-influence-of-marijuana.html?_r=0

Interesting article that takes some issue with your statement that "studies show THC doesn't impair your abilities to drive." Article says there are some studies that show that, but the general consensus in the scientific community is a 2 fold increase if THC is present. Article also says that given limited resources we are better off focusing on drunk drivers.
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Yeah, need to pump the brakes on the THC doesn't impair driving thing. From the NEJM review published last year:

"Both immediate exposure and long-term exposure to marijuana impair driving ability; marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently reported in connection with impaired driving and accidents, including fatal accidents.35 There is a relationship between the blood THC concentration and performance in controlled driving-simulation studies,36 which are a good predictor of real-world driving ability. Recent marijuana smoking and blood THC levels of 2 to 5 ng per milliliter are associated with substantial driving impairment.37 According to a meta-analysis, the overall risk of involvement in an accident increases by a factor of about 2 when a person drives soon after using marijuana. 37 In an accident culpability analysis, persons testing positive for THC (typical minimum level of detection, 1 ng per milliliter), and particularly those with higher blood levels, were 3 to 7 times as likely to be responsible for a motor-vehicle accident as persons who had not used drugs or alcohol before driving.38 In comparison, the overall risk of a vehicular accident increases by a factor of almost 5 for drivers with a blood alcohol level above 0.08%, the legal limit in most countries, and increases by a factor of 27 for persons younger than 21 years of age.39 Not surprisingly, the risk associated with the use of alcohol in combination with marijuana appears to be greater than that associated with the use of either drug alone."
 
tiltdeac said:
Yeah, need to pump the brakes on the THC doesn't impair driving thing. From the NEJM review published last year:

"Both immediate exposure and long-term exposure to marijuana impair driving ability; marijuana is the illicit drug most frequently reported in connection with impaired driving and accidents, including fatal accidents.35 There is a relationship between the blood THC concentration and performance in controlled driving-simulation studies,36 which are a good predictor of real-world driving ability. Recent marijuana smoking and blood THC levels of 2 to 5 ng per milliliter are associated with substantial driving impairment.37 According to a meta-analysis, the overall risk of involvement in an accident increases by a factor of about 2 when a person drives soon after using marijuana. 37 In an accident culpability analysis, persons testing positive for THC (typical minimum level of detection, 1 ng per milliliter), and particularly those with higher blood levels, were 3 to 7 times as likely to be responsible for a motor-vehicle accident as persons who had not used drugs or alcohol before driving.38 In comparison, the overall risk of a vehicular accident increases by a factor of almost 5 for drivers with a blood alcohol level above 0.08%, the legal limit in most countries, and increases by a factor of 27 for persons younger than 21 years of age.39 Not surprisingly, the risk associated with the use of alcohol in combination with marijuana appears to be greater than that associated with the use of either drug alone."
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Fair enough.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
Driving with a .05 BAC also in increases your risk of accidents 2 fold and that is completely legal. There is a reason why driving drunk has been a huge public risk while driving stoned hasn't, and it's not because weed is illegal.
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I made no statements regarding what should or shouldn't be illegal. I just pointed out the factual error in your post. That's all.
 
bojanglefunk said:
I made no statements regarding what should or shouldn't be illegal. I just pointed out the factual error in your post. That's all.
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My post made no factual errors. There are definitely studies that have shown marijuana doesn't impact your ability to drive.

The point of my post was that it shouldn't matter if you're under the influence of marijuana, but if you are to impaired to drive. If you are high and can't pass a road side sobriety test then you should get punished.

"A Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation study used the roadside survey and data from nine states that test more than 80% of drivers killed in crashes. When adjusted for alcohol and driver demographics, the study found that otherwise sober drivers who tested positive for marijuana were slightly less likely to have been involved in a crash than drivers who tested negative for all drugs."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/01/marijuana-drivers-accidents-alcohol-effect-law-use
 
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bojanglefunk said:
I made no statements regarding what should or shouldn't be illegal. I just pointed out the factual error in your post. That's all.
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WFcatamount22 said:
My post made no factual errors. There are definitely studies that have shown marijuana doesn't impact your ability to drive.

The point of my post was that it shouldn't matter if you're under the influence of marijuana, but if you are to impaired to drive. If you are high and can't pass a road side sobriety test then you should get punished.

"A Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation study used the roadside survey and data from nine states that test more than 80% of drivers killed in crashes. When adjusted for alcohol and driver demographics, the study found that otherwise sober drivers who tested positive for marijuana were slightly less likely to have been involved in a crash than drivers who tested negative for all drugs."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/01/marijuana-drivers-accidents-alcohol-effect-law-use
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Sorry, just phrasing things poorly (and posting quickly on tapatalk earlier). I don't have much of an issue with the stance that there are probably safe levels of driving with both alcohol and weed (although there is a part of me that thinks if alcohol were a new development on the legal front, we would be in a different place than we currently are).

I just wanted to point out that most scientists agree, and most studies show, that weed does impair driving. The tone of "studies show that it doesn't" somewhat implies it is an accepted scientific conclusion that it doesn't. I think it is a part of the conversation that is worth having.

ETA: Another point on driving impaired is whether we want to live in a society that is risk free (i.e. the .05 alcohol example becomes illegal) at the social cost of additional restrictions, or are we willing to accept that risk to live in a more free society and be able to enjoy things we like. Obviously this is a sliding scale and I tend towards wanting a bit of risk so we can do things we enjoy, up to a point.
 
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The Virginia House bill that prompted this discussion has been tabled.
 
WFcatamount22 said:
My post made no factual errors. There are definitely studies that have shown marijuana doesn't impact your ability to drive.

The point of my post was that it shouldn't matter if you're under the influence of marijuana, but if you are to impaired to drive. If you are high and can't pass a road side sobriety test then you should get punished.

"A Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation study used the roadside survey and data from nine states that test more than 80% of drivers killed in crashes. When adjusted for alcohol and driver demographics, the study found that otherwise sober drivers who tested positive for marijuana were slightly less likely to have been involved in a crash than drivers who tested negative for all drugs."

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/01/marijuana-drivers-accidents-alcohol-effect-law-use
Click to expand...

So your response to someone pointing out that the science disagrees is to cite one study that agrees with your position. Got it.
 
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