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So how exactly did this happen?

ChrisL68 said:
Now the Pubs are going to have to deliver on their promise of making these white middle class Americans lives better. They have no excuses now. Time to deliver.
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They have never worried about the middle class before. Why would they start now?

Three words that cost Hillary the election - Comey, Putin, complacency
 
ChrisL68 said:
Now the Pubs are going to have to deliver on their promise of making these white middle class Americans lives better. They have no excuses now. Time to deliver.
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This is true. Only thing they lack is a supermajority in the Senate.
 
ChrisL68 said:
It doesn't matter because that's how the Democratic primary works. The Pub primary works the same way. CA has more delegates than TX and NY is 3rd even though Pubs never win those states.

If you want to play that game, then you need to take away the delegates that Bernie won in the mountain west and midwest states that Dems never win. Then you get back to the core states they usually win and she best him pretty soundly in those states.

And they split OH, PA, MI, and WI the rust belt states.

Related; Do you always have to be such an ass? You have some interesting things to say if you would drop your condescending pretense and actually just say what you mean. I am not your child and i don't appreciate you talking to me like I am so cut the shit.
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The Democratic primary system is broken. The upturned noses at Bernie from establishment Dems is beyond ridiculous at this point. Gore lost, Kerry lost, Hillary lost twice. How much longer are you going to continue trusting a failing process?

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jhmd2000 said:
Chris,
What is the recommended tone for an exchange with people who are convinced they have a monopoly on empathy, compassion, judgment and wisdom and their opposing party has the same on racism and ignorance?
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So, so put-upon.

Hang in there man, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone it people like you
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The Democratic primary system is broken. The upturned noses at Bernie from establishment Dems is beyond ridiculous at this point. Gore lost, Kerry lost, Hillary lost twice. How much longer are you going to continue trusting a failing process?

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Bill won and Obama won. I don't get your point.

Both primaries have problems. Timing, length, etc. The problem for Dems isn't that superdelegates backed Bernie. Voters backed Hillary. The problem is how few candidates stepped up to oppose Hillary in 2008 and 2016. That's not just a primary problem. That's a problem with the influence of the Clintons and the resulting lack of a bench.
 
PhDeac said:
Bill won and Obama won. I don't get your point.

Both primaries have problems. Timing, length, etc. The problem for Dems isn't that superdelegates backed Bernie. Voters backed Hillary. The problem is how few candidates stepped up to oppose Hillary in 2008 and 2016. That's not just a primary problem. That's a problem with the influence of the Clintons and the resulting lack of a bench.
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Obama came out of nowhere - the DNC had chosen Clinton and was forced to switch to Obama. Bill won his primary 20 years ago. Saying the voters chose Hillary in the primary is the same as saying the voters chose Hillary in the popular vote. The popular vote doesn't win the election.

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Who forced the DNC to switch if not primary voters?

You've described a DNC leadership problem. I agree with it.
 
The only people who don't think Putin did the hacks and handed them to Wikileaks are moronic RWers or those who are willfully blind.
 
PhDeac said:
Who forced the DNC to switch if not primary voters?

You've described a DNC leadership problem. I agree with it.
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You are lumping Obama in with the rest of the failed Democratic candidates and completely dismissing the difference between them. Obama was an inspiring, charismatic candidate - the rest were not. He was not a product of DNC establishment pragmatics. I think it would be extremely foolish to expect our current system to consistently produce candidates like Barack Obama, as opposed to candidates like John Kerry. But you do you.

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RJKarl said:
The only people who don't think Putin did the hacks and handed them to Wikileaks are moronic RWers or those who are willfully blind.
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RJ: Often wrong, but never in doubt.

You state this as a stone cold fact when really it is just your own opinion. You don't know the first damned thing about whether what you said was actually true or not.
 
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So what is your solution mdmh.

1. Getting rid of superdelegates? Fine.
2. Letting enlightened progressives such as yourself decide who the Democratic candidate is instead of the voters? Not Fine.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
You are lumping Obama in with the rest of the failed Democratic candidates and completely dismissing the difference between them. Obama was an inspiring, charismatic candidate - the rest were not. He was not a product of DNC establishment pragmatics. I think it would be extremely foolish to expect our current system to consistently produce candidates like Barack Obama, as opposed to candidates like John Kerry. But you do you.

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How does the system prevent good candidates? Bernie wasn't a good candidate. Dem Leadership and lack of personal ambition discouraged other candidates.
 
ChrisL68 said:
So what is your solution mdmh.

1. Getting rid of superdelegates? Fine.
2. Letting enlightened progressives such as yourself decide who the Democratic candidate is instead of the voters? Not Fine.
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Speaking of condescending. You don't need to be mad at me, I voted for Hillary. I think the DNC needs to find inspiring candidates who focus more on addressing the concerns of swing state voters. The fact that Republicans have a similar primary system is irrelevant because Republicans don't have the same problem winning the electoral college.

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myDeaconmyhand said:
Speaking of condescending. You don't need to be mad at me, I voted for Hillary. I think the DNC needs to find inspiring candidates who focus more on addressing the concerns of swing state voters. The fact that Republicans have a similar primary system is irrelevant because Republicans don't have the same problem winning the electoral college.

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I am not mad at you. i am honestly curious what your solution is. if I came off as condescending i apologize. i agree with you that Clinton vs. Sanders was not a very inspiring field of candidates.

But at the end of the day, Clinton won that battle, and it annoyed me that Sanders supporters didn't want to accept the legitimacy of that result. i think it hurt Clinton in the general election.

I would actually like to see primaries in every state. The caucus system is so outdated and inefficient. Getting rid of superdelegates is a good call. They aren't ever going to actually change the result, they just provide the perception that the primary is tilted towards the establishment. Not sure how I feel about open vs. closed. i am unaffiliated in NC.
 
bobknightfan said:
RJ: Often wrong, but never in doubt.

You state this as a stone cold fact when really it is just your own opinion. You don't know the first damned thing about whether what you said was actually true or not.
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Even Stevie wonder could see this bob
 
ChrisL68 said:
But at the end of the day, Clinton won that battle, and it annoyed me that Sanders supporters didn't want to accept the legitimacy of that result. i think it hurt Clinton in the general election...
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This mindset right here is part of the problem. Clinton is what hurt Clinton in the general election. She was never a good candidate. You're annoyed that a bunch of fickle, unpredictable voters didn't get behind the unlikable, scandalous, elitist establishment candidate. The answer to that is not to run an unlikable, scandalous, establishment candidate. The problem with the DNC primary process is that you pick out the candidate that establishment Dems like the most, not the candidate that is most likely to inspire non-establishment voters. The Democratic party needs to start compromising and telling establishment voters to get in line, instead of just hoping that people outside of the tent will like who you picked.

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