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So the Pub strategy is to hold the nation and economy hostage?

It's about $80-100B per year....and it shouldn't be on just the over $250K. ALL of Bush's tax cuts should go away. We did just fine in the 90s with those rates.

Do that. Cut Defense by 10-15% and we'd be on our way.

We should also have one procurement center for all the government departments. A chair is a chair whether it goes to the DOD or the Dept ofd Commerce. the same thing is true about computers and toilet paper.
 
Going back to 39.5% generates $70 billion per year....wow that will take the annual deficit down from $1.4 trillion to $1.33 trillion...holy shit!!! Our fiscal problems have been solved.


These are Obama's numbers BTW.
 
RJKarl said:
It's about $80-100B per year....and it shouldn't be on just the over $250K. ALL of Bush's tax cuts should go away. We did just fine in the 90s with those rates.

Do that. Cut Defense by 10-15% and we'd be on our way.

We should also have one procurement center for all the government departments. A chair is a chair whether it goes to the DOD or the Dept ofd Commerce. the same thing is true about computers and toilet paper.
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RJ...I can live with all of that because it's rational and fair...although I'd like to see more that 10-15% cut from DOD. More like 25%-35%.
 
There is NOTHING the GOP has proposed that would bring in 30% of that amount.....

SCDeac said:
Going back to 39.5% generates $70 billion per year....wow that will take the annual deficit down from $1.4 trillion to $1.33 trillion...holy shit!!! Our fiscal problems have been solved.


These are Obama's numbers BTW.
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SCDeac said:
Ryan Plan vs. Doing Nothing Meaningful....yep I'd be okay with that
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disingenuous.

The Ryan plan vs. raising the debt limit now and getting real about tax rates and, yes, doing some work on entitlements and defense.

When the economy improves, not only to revenues rise but expenses on entitlements drop.

You and the Republicans are reacting to a natural rise in deficits as a result of a recession (caused by the assholes on wall street, not by average Americans, like Henny Penny. The sky is falling. It is politics - Obama is enormously popular and squeaky clean, you aren't going to get him on a blowjob, it doesn't appear.) This is what the new republican party does - it goes after its opponents with everything its got - regardless of right or wrong. it wasted so much time and energy and money on Clinton's sex scandal that perhaps could have been used to shore up some of the things that led to this crisis in the first place. It's the same way with foreign policy - we get attacked by a band of extremists - and the Pubs want to go and blow the shit out of Iraq. ????? wtf? You people are insane ;) calm down

The deficits and the interest on our debt is a realistic concern, but it can be addressed responsibly over the next 10 years without these debt ceiling and Medicare slashing theatrics.
 
SCDeac said:
Good sound bites...but I don't know a single coorporate big wig, Wall Street banker, or whatever other person that it's in vogue to demonize...which means nailing those few scalps to the wall won;t accomplish a whole hell of a lot.

FWIW, I haven't had a pay increase in 4 years, but I'd still say that as an American I have benefitted from all the spending in the past. And now the credit card bill is due and we're all going to end up paying. No one single class can be soaked enough to bail us out of this.
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sound bytes? dude, it's true. Do you know how much income the financial sector enjoys? These guys don't create anything, much less jobs, yet they enjoy the same tax breaks that a hard working CEO of a company of 5000 employees enjoys.

Moreover, THEY CAUSED THE FUCKING MELTDOWN, not the recipients of entitlements.
 
Medicare and SS have massive structural and demographic problems. A few tweaks under the hood aren't going to fix them.

Let me reframe the option the


Ryan Plan vs. Borrowing Trillions More (ie raising debt ceiling)
 
WakeandBake said:
sound bytes? dude, it's true. Do you know how much income the financial sector enjoys? These guys don't create anything, much less jobs, yet they enjoy the same tax breaks that a hard working CEO of a company of 5000 employees enjoys.

Moreover, THEY CAUSED THE FUCKING MELTDOWN, not the recipients of entitlements.
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Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Bob Rubin, AIG, Lehman Bros....there are plenty of dirty hands who palyed a role in the meltdown...and the list is much longer than this and its roots go back 15 years or more.

Simplify the tax code...eliminate most deductions, credits, etc. There won't be any loopholes for fat cats like Jeff Immelt to exploit..
 
The problemn with taking 25-35% from Defense all at once is that it bump up unemployment. Now if you wanted drop defense 30% AND build a new national elctrical grid AND spend $50-100B/year on infrastructure, I'd say go for it.

I finally figured out what Ryan's Medicare plan reminded me of. It's the scene in Back To School where the professor is building a widget plant and Rodney Dangerfield is telling about the real world.

In the real world Ryan's plan will bnakrupt and kill people before their time. There would be very few 80yos who coudl afford the gap of money above their vouchers.

The insurance comnpanies would make the oil companies look like pikers in the amount of unreasonable profit they woudl make.
 
WakeandBake said:
sound bytes? dude, it's true. Do you know how much income the financial sector enjoys? These guys don't create anything, much less jobs, yet they enjoy the same tax breaks that a hard working CEO of a company of 5000 employees enjoys.

Moreover, THEY CAUSED THE FUCKING MELTDOWN, not the recipients of entitlements.
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I'm not targeting anyone on SS or Medicare...I'm just saying that both programs have huge structural problems that have to be addressed if both programs are to survive and in meaningful way.

As for other entitlement programs..they are in deserate need of reform. I deal with plenty of first class loafers everyday who are living off of the taxpayers.
 
Gotta run...little one is up...as usual it's been entertaining
 
How can people still argue that the bush tax cuts should stay in place?
 
RJKarl said:
In the real world Ryan's plan will bnakrupt and kill people before their time. There would be very few 80yos who coudl afford the gap of money above their vouchers.
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How do you define "before their time"? Should it be society's responsibility to extend someone's life beyond what they can afford to pay?

Does anyone know if, on average, people receive more Medicare benefits than they pay into the system?
 
If you believe in "certain unalienable rights", then if the technology exists, the person has the right to it.

Also unless you've never worked you have paidc into Medicare. Thus you have PAID for the serive and thus should have it.
 
RJKarl said:
If you believe in "certain unalienable rights", then if the technology exists, the person has the right to it.

Also unless you've never worked you have paidc into Medicare. Thus you have PAID for the serive and thus should have it.
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Absolutely wrong. Unalienable rights are not those which someone else has to provide for us. No one has the unalienable right to a technology that society has to pay for. Congress could decide to make acess to medical technology a legal right. But it is not an unalienable right.
 
Shorty said:
Absolutely wrong. Unalienable rights are not those which someone else has to provide for us. No one has the unalienable right to a technology that society has to pay for. Congress could decide to make acess to medical technology a legal right. But it is not an unalienable right.
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If you have a right LIFE and HAPPINESS, health is part of each. You can't have life without health....
 
RJKarl said:
If you have a right LIFE and HAPPINESS, health is part of each. You can't have life without health....
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Now you're just being ridiculous.

And you don't have an unalienable right to happiness. The "pursuit of happiness" is unalienable right. Big difference.

Unalienable rights are those "endowed by their Creator", not those that have to be provided by someone else.
 
WakeandBake said:
disingenuous.

The Ryan plan vs. raising the debt limit now and getting real about tax rates and, yes, doing some work on entitlements and defense.

When the economy improves, not only to revenues rise but expenses on entitlements drop.
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Put some of these cuts on the table NOW, then we can talk about raising the limit. But if you are going to say "we have to wait until the recession is over" then that's a non-starter for me.
 
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