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Steve Forbes credibility watch

myDeaconmyhand said:
Keats & Brownell both made the tournament their first season, so they immediately got extended runway with admin and fanbase. We’re probably not having these conversations about Forbes to this degree if the ManMan team had gotten a bid.
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Calling bullshit on this - For starters, Keatts & Brownell both inherited vastly better situations to win right away compared to Forbes and that's not even up for debate.

And if the ManMan team received a bid but was one and done (due largely to his injury), the same posters who want Forbes gone yesterday would be singing the exact same tune and pointing to the CLEAR DOWNWARD TREND in the program to justify it.
 
Call bullshit, you’re wrong. Portraying Forbes critics as unreasonable doesn’t help make your point. Making the tournament serves as a proof of concept for most D1 coaches, and by that understanding a coach is given more patience for already having shown what they can accomplish with their current program.
 
Please point out where I "portrayed Forbes critics as unreasonable".

I've questioned Forbes' roster management and coaching decisions at times as well so if that qualifies feel free to put me in the critics camp.

But there is a wide fucking gap between being critical and demanding that Currie fire him today. And I'm sure there will be huge line of D1 coaches queued up outside of Currie's office waiting to jump on this bus after firing a coach with a winning conference record after 4 seasons (3 real seasons) who inherited a shitshow.
 
WRS said:
Blaming the perception of the ACC for not making the tournament is so weak. We had opportunities and didn’t win games against largely mediocre opponents.
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Completely agree and a big reason for poor perception is the next tier teams like us continue to crater down the stretch and lose to teams like UGA in the NIT.
 
Colonel Angus said:
Please point out where I "portrayed Forbes critics as unreasonable".

I've questioned Forbes' roster management and coaching decisions at times as well so if that qualifies feel free to put me in the critics camp.

But there is a wide fucking gap between being critical and demanding that Currie fire him today. And I'm sure there will be huge line of D1 coaches queued up outside of Currie's office waiting to jump on this bus after firing a coach with a winning conference record after 4 seasons (3 real seasons) who inherited a shitshow.
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Not this shit again. Yes, just like it took Michigan all of 9 days to hire someone after firing their own fucking legend Juwon Howard.

You know what will make it hard to hire a decent new coach? When we haven't made the actual tournament in 20 years and are no longer in the ACC. Which are both about to happen.

But with our pathetic, excuse-making fanbase, we deserve all of the misery we have received and will continue to receive. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.
 
In watching many of the NCAAT teams, Wake just wasn’t as good as these teams. Granted, there’s some recency bias given the collapse down the stretch, though the collapse shows that we just weren’t that good, either.
 
A common trait I see in winning (and close loss) NCAA teams is toughness. Playing physical, fighting through contact to get the ball up, fighting through screens to defend, diving head first into the scorer’s table to save possession. If Wake had somehow made the tournament, I do not have faith that same toughness would be displayed. Especially in late-game situations
 
WakeFanAdam said:
A common trait I see in winning (and close loss) NCAA teams is toughness. Playing physical, fighting through contact to get the ball up, fighting through screens to defend, diving head first into the scorer’s table to save possession. If Wake had somehow made the tournament, I do not have faith that same toughness would be displayed. Especially in late-game situations
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I would add that the Sweet 16 teams, for the most part, appear to place a much higher value on quality possessions and the basketball. We had spurts this season that were just mind-numbingly bad. Often in very key situations.
 
We also don't play with NEAR as much physicality as many of these teams. I mean watching the bodies fly all over the place in Houston/A&M was insane. Every rebound, every loose ball, every trip to the lane was a war. Our teams rarely, if ever, have that mindset.

You can play fundamentally sound basketball while also just beating the shit out of the other team into submission. Then, even if you can't make shots, you still easily beat teams like GT/ND/LSU/etc. We just don't typically have a lot of urgency - Duke home game aside.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Not this shit again. Yes, just like it took Michigan all of 9 days to hire someone after firing their own fucking legend Juwon Howard.

You know what will make it hard to hire a decent new coach? When we haven't made the actual tournament in 20 years and are no longer in the ACC. Which are both about to happen.

But with our pathetic, excuse-making fanbase, we deserve all of the misery we have received and will continue to receive. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.
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Did DR guess 2&2's password?
 
The lack of physicality is hand-in-hand with settling for tougher shots.
 
TheAbster said:
I would add that the Sweet 16 teams, for the most part, appear to place a much higher value on quality possessions and the basketball. We had spurts this season that were just mind-numbingly bad. Often in very key situations.
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This was one of my criticisms of the Reid three point attempts. I read on here he hit 33% in conference play, but it seems that when he missed, it was at a critical juncture and it was not a good shot.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
Not this shit again. Yes, just like it took Michigan all of 9 days to hire someone after firing their own fucking legend Juwon Howard.

You know what will make it hard to hire a decent new coach? When we haven't made the actual tournament in 20 years and are no longer in the ACC. Which are both about to happen.

But with our pathetic, excuse-making fanbase, we deserve all of the misery we have received and will continue to receive. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.
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Well I think we will be in the ACC. What the ACC looks like, who can say. The [Redacted] hire was completely inexcusable and squandered what may have been Wake's last good shot to build a winner. So I blame most of this on Ron Wellman.
 
scooter84 said:
Did DR guess 2&2's password?
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He’s right. The woe is me “we could never find a better coach” bullshit is lazy and sad. Just admit you’re comfortable with NIT level basketball. I’m so sorry that [redacted] only won 13 games a year, but it was 10 years ago, you gotta move on with your life. [Redacted]’s tenure is not the standard for Wake Forest Basketball.
 
tigerswood said:
We also don't play with NEAR as much physicality as many of these teams. I mean watching the bodies fly all over the place in Houston/A&M was insane. Every rebound, every loose ball, every trip to the lane was a war. Our teams rarely, if ever, have that mindset.

You can play fundamentally sound basketball while also just beating the shit out of the other team into submission. Then, even if you can't make shots, you still easily beat teams like GT/ND/LSU/etc. We just don't typically have a lot of urgency - Duke home game aside.
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With the A&M game in mind, both of those teams have strong bodies to come off the bench when fouls start to pile up. Are they starting-quality talent? No. But they arent toothpicks that hop around like gazelles. They are tanks. FSU has done it for years. They keep coming at you in waves. That kind of physicality wears you down mentally as much as physically.
 
Forbes had a number of issues outside of his control impact this season. His wife's stroke and Efton Reid's issues with the NCAA and their arcane decision process were two of the biggest. Those were exacerbated by the injuries to players who were expected to be significant contributors this season. I'm in the camp of Forbes gets at least one year without a lot of unusual external impact events.
 
Deaconblue said:
Forbes had a number of issues outside of his control impact this season. His wife's stroke and Efton Reid's issues with the NCAA and their arcane decision process were two of the biggest. Those were exacerbated by the injuries to players who were expected to be significant contributors this season. I'm in the camp of Forbes gets at least one year without a lot of unusual external impact events.
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It was very predictable that Efton would have trouble getting his waiver. We also knew Monsanto would be out for a while. There was no plan for their absences.
 
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