• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Steve Forbes credibility watch

Steve Forbes is signed through at least 2029. He's not getting fired this year, next year or the year absent a scandal or the program falling off the table, like L'ville did under Kenny Payne.
 
ddeacs98 said:
With the portal, 3 seasons should be enough time.
Season 1: stop the bleeding and plan strategy going forward
Season 2: show improvement, but may not be there yet
Season 3: tweak season 2’s gaps
Season 4 (if there is one): AD should re-evaluate decision and if need be rip the band-aid off.
Click to expand...
I believe that the portal doesn't really create a linear path for success: new gaps are created when the players you brought in to cover other gaps have left. Forbes certainly has an eye for overlooked players and they have blossomed into stars. He is close to getting this program into an NCAA tournament team.
 
DeacOnCapeCod said:
He is close to getting this program into an NCAA tournament team.
Click to expand...
the importance of almost getting into the tournament is completely dependent upon a year over year linear rate of improvement. The program isn’t improving at a linear rate. With the constant change in roster every year we are just as likely to lose 3 more games as we are to win 3 more. The entire problem is that we are consistently mediocre - if we can accurately predict anything about our next season based on the previous 4, it’s that we we will win 17-21 games, finish 5th-8th in the conference, and be on the wrong side of the bubble.
 
Pilchard said:
Steve Forbes is signed through at least 2029. He's not getting fired this year, next year or the year absent a scandal or the program falling off the table, like L'ville did under Kenny Payne.
Click to expand...
Wellp, sounds like we need a new AD. If you put the program in a position where a coach can potentially miss the NCAAs 7 years in a row, that’s not good process
 
birdman said:
I really appreciate that you carried this out to 5 decimal places.
Click to expand...
SIG DIGS, MOTHER FUCKER.

BigSurprise.jpg
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
the importance of almost getting into the tournament is completely dependent upon a year over year linear rate of improvement. The program isn’t improving at a linear rate. With the constant change in roster every year we are just as likely to lose 3 more games as we are to win 3 more. The entire problem is that we are consistently mediocre - if we can accurately predict anything about our next season based on the previous 4, it’s that we we will win 17-21 games, finish 5th-8th in the conference, and be on the wrong side of the bubble.
Click to expand...
OK. I'll bite.

So what is your alternative to Forbes that is a better solution and could rise above the PR hit we would have if Forbes was fired this offseason.

I think I've earned my credentials on not being a sunshine brigade kind of guy, but I just don't see a reasonably attainable path to a better future with Forbes fired this summer than Forbes staying on.

I like Forbes but I'm no way sold on him. I mentioned plenty this year that the 2nd half road collapses were a worrying trend and went beyond mere happenstance. There is a real issue there that needs to be sorted.

But, back to your overriding message of Forbes isn't the guy - which may be correct (or may not be) - if we fire Forbes, who are you hiring? And do you expect that new person to have a better 2024/25 season than Wake Forest would have if we stood pat?


And this is all moot because we all know that Forbes isn't going anywhere, but let's play make believe and have some fun!
 
Forbes major problem can be summed up as a lack of retention.

The 2022-2023 team added Appleby. The team could have retained Walton, Muscius, and LaRavia.

The 2023-2024 team added Sallis and Reid. The team could have retained LaRavia and Klintman.
 
And lack of development. Cam is the only player recruited to Wake as a freshman who has developed and gotten consistent playing time. It's possible next season's squad only has two players who didn't come to Wake as transfers.
 
Because here is the thing.

When I went BuzzOUT! after his very first game it was because I heard him in the post game press conference/interview blaming literally everyone but himself. I immediately knew that a YMCA coach would be better than Bzzz because the YMCA coach wouldn't destroy their confidence with toxic coaching.

I didn't like the Manning hire (because giving an inexperienced coach the responsibility of building a program back isn't a wise choice, IMO) but gave Manning the benefit of the doubt for 2 years.

Watched him on the sidelines. Listened to him explain his decisions. Knew he wasn't the guy and that Wake would be better with literally any JuCo coach or better. Manning was clearly in over his head and it was painful to listen to him fumble through basic questions in press conferences. Great player. Shit coach. Happens all the time.

My concerns with Forbes are how his teams at home and away are like Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde. And honestly, I'm not sure he can fix it because he answered some questions about it in a flabbergasted fashion which truly freaked me out.

That said, I'm not ready to give Forbes the boot. PLUS, PR wise, it would be fucking stupid as other alluded to, and I ignorantly doubted, earlier this month/late last month.
 
JOJESMA said:
Forbes major problem can be summed up as a lack of retention.

The 2022-2023 team added Appleby. The team could have retained Walton, Muscius, and LaRavia.

The 2023-2024 team added Sallis and Reid. The team could have retained LaRavia and Klintman.
Click to expand...
That 2022-23 team would have been a lot better with two LaRavias.
 
PhDeac said:
And lack of development. Cam is the only player recruited to Wake as a freshman who has developed and gotten consistent playing time. It's possible next season's squad only has two players who didn't come to Wake as transfers.
Click to expand...
A complaint of yesteryear, IMO.

When it comes to the elite 8 I'd like to see what % of each team were original recruits vs transfers via the portal.
 
deacvision7 said:
OK. I'll bite.
Click to expand...
There’s nothing for you to bite on because I didn’t invite an argument. My observation is that the program record isn’t improving linearly, year to year. Whether or not you believe a new coaching search would succeed at the moment is a completely separate argument that I’m not taking part in.

I believe my observation is worthwhile, despite the unlikelihood of a coaching change. I just don’t see the necessity of a fools hope - if I don’t believe we are improving i’m not going to pretend otherwise just to stay at peace with an unalterable situation.
 
If Forbes is locked in for 5 more years. Oof. I’m not up for mediocrity so I hope he figures it out. He’s got to do better with HS recruiting. The Portal is not a sustainable model as your main talent acquisition mode
 
For those saying he’s locked in so we won’t make a move, especially when adding in the Danny buyout let’s remember this. Mit Shah is a literal billionaire. He dropped $5 mil this year on what was effectively T-shirts for fans. If we want to make a change and he’s in favor of it then it will happen and we’ll be fine.
 
This isn’t complicated. We need at least one NBA starting caliber player to make the NCAA tourney. I can’t think of a single time Wake has made the tournament without that. Late career portal guys aren’t that…they may be NBA role players but not typically starter level.

Wake needs NBA caliber players. Very simple.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top