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Straight arms to head and facemask by the offense

RJKarl

RJKarl

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If a defender can't hit an offensive player in the head or facemask, there is no reason it shouldn't be a personal foul for an offensive player to straight arm a defender in the head or the facemask.
 
I know where you're coming from. That stuff aggravated the hell out of me yesterday too.
 
Actually agree with this. Pushing the facemask forces your head down and there's nothing you can do about it. It makes the running back look like a badass, but really it is just the most vulnerable place on any player. Shouldn't be allowed.
 
RJKarl said:
If a defender can't hit an offensive player in the head or facemask, there is no reason it shouldn't be a personal foul for an offensive player to straight arm a defender in the head or the facemask.
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it's actually supposed to be a point of emphasis to call this, but i've seen it called 1 time.
 
Outlawing stiffarms? Seriously? It's pussy enough that everything is a targeting foul now, or that everybody expects a targeting foul for the slightest contact to the head.

Huge difference between helmet to helmet contact, a facemask (that facemask penalty yesterday was bullshit, but they don't allow any leeway between a 5 and 15 yarder anymore), and a stiffarm. Don't wanna be stiffarmed? Then tackle lower.
 
Nobody suggested outlawing stiff arms. People are saying they should not allow the ball carrier to facemask hold a defender. You could still stiffarm the defenders chest all you wanted.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Outlawing stiffarms? Seriously? It's pussy enough that everything is a targeting foul now, or that everybody expects a targeting foul for the slightest contact to the head.

Huge difference between helmet to helmet contact, a facemask (that facemask penalty yesterday was bullshit, but they don't allow any leeway between a 5 and 15 yarder anymore), and a stiffarm. Don't wanna be stiffarmed? Then tackle lower.
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A defensive player can't hit an offensive player in the helmet or facemask at all. It should be both ways.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Outlawing stiffarms? Seriously? It's pussy enough that everything is a targeting foul now, or that everybody expects a targeting foul for the slightest contact to the head.

Huge difference between helmet to helmet contact, a facemask (that facemask penalty yesterday was bullshit, but they don't allow any leeway between a 5 and 15 yarder anymore), and a stiffarm. Don't wanna be stiffarmed? Then tackle lower.
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I disagree. This is not a pussy safety rule. It's an unfair advantage. It's not allowed on the offense or defensive line because there's nothing you can do when your mask is being pushed up and back. And you can't simply say tackle lower, as that is not always an option depending on the angle or situation.

It might be a little more tolerable if runners truly used the stiff arm rather than jerking a tackler down by the facemask. Maybe a few more offensive facemask calls would clean that up. I dunno. Just seems to me that the facemask is there for protective purposes, and contacting it gives you an unfair advantage, and that should apply to everyone.
 
This should be a penalty every single time.

73140096.jpg
 
And here, he is clearly grasping the facemask, probably about to drag the defender to the ground. It is ridiculous that this is allowed to go on. Just google Duke Johnson and there's pictures all over the place of him doing this shit.

duke-johnson-stiffarm.jpg
 
Yet our dudes breathe on his facemask and it's a 15 yarder.
 
Grabbing the facemask is a penalty no matter who does it. That picture with him and USF should've been whistled if it wasn't already. That play with him and VT is legal and should remain so.

Facemask penalties shouldn't be whistled unless the mask is grabbed and the player clearly affected, IMO.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
Grabbing the facemask is a penalty no matter who does it. That picture with him and USF should've been whistled if it wasn't already. That play with him and VT is legal and should remain so.

Facemask penalties shouldn't be whistled unless the mask is grabbed and the player clearly affected, IMO.
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Then we'll disagree. Pushing up and back on the facemask gives an unfair advantage the defender can not overcome.

And I don't think the tackler should have to tackle low to avoid that.
 
However, things would be much better if refs would at least call offensive facemask when it occurs.
 
If a defender does that to an offensive player, usually a lineman, then it's illegal use of hands. I don't see why it shouldn't go both ways.
 
From http://www.dfoa.com/attachments/article/69/2013-14_Football_Rule_Book.pdf

ARTICLE 8. a. No player shall continuously contact an opponent’s helmet (including the face mask) with hand(s) or arm(s) (Exception:By or against the runner).
b.No player shall grasp and then twist, turn or pull the face mask, chin strap or any helmet opening of an opponent. It is not a foul if the face mask, chin strap or helmet opening is not grasped and then twisted, turned or pulled. When in question, it is a foul.

So the exceptions are for things like stiffarms where the facemask is contacted but not grabbed and pulled, and contacting the opponent's helmet during the course of a tackle. It is a penalty if you twist, turn, or pull the face mask of any opposing player.

Make sure to read up on the targeting and horse collaring rules too. Some interesting details in those. You can still horse collar a QB in the pocket.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
From http://www.dfoa.com/attachments/article/69/2013-14_Football_Rule_Book.pdf

ARTICLE 8. a. No player shall continuously contact an opponent’s helmet (including the face mask) with hand(s) or arm(s) (Exception:By or against the runner).
b.No player shall grasp and then twist, turn or pull the face mask, chin strap or any helmet opening of an opponent. It is not a foul if the face mask, chin strap or helmet opening is not grasped and then twisted, turned or pulled. When in question, it is a foul.

So the exceptions are for things like stiffarms where the facemask is contacted but not grabbed and pulled, and contacting the opponent's helmet during the course of a tackle. It is a penalty if you twist, turn, or pull the face mask of any opposing player.

Make sure to read up on the targeting and horse collaring rules too. Some interesting details in those. You can still horse collar a QB in the pocket.
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We used to have the 5 yard (no automatic first down) incidental face mask penalty that would get called if a player's hand kind of brushed a opponent's facemask. They did away with that and decided that all facemask penalties called would be the personal foul 15 yard penalty, but with the understanding that it shouldn't be called in situation where the face mask is brushed, but not grabbed. The late facemask penalty against us should in no way have been called a 15 yard personal foul penalty.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
From http://www.dfoa.com/attachments/article/69/2013-14_Football_Rule_Book.pdf

ARTICLE 8. a. No player shall continuously contact an opponent’s helmet (including the face mask) with hand(s) or arm(s) (Exception:By or against the runner).
b.No player shall grasp and then twist, turn or pull the face mask, chin strap or any helmet opening of an opponent. It is not a foul if the face mask, chin strap or helmet opening is not grasped and then twisted, turned or pulled. When in question, it is a foul.

So the exceptions are for things like stiffarms where the facemask is contacted but not grabbed and pulled, and contacting the opponent's helmet during the course of a tackle. It is a penalty if you twist, turn, or pull the face mask of any opposing player.

Make sure to read up on the targeting and horse collaring rules too. Some interesting details in those. You can still horse collar a QB in the pocket.
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I understand the rule, just disagree with it. Many "stiff arms" are really face masks and should be called, but I question the legality of pushing the head back with an open hand to the face mask. The face mask introduces an artificial leverage on the head/neck that provides an unfair advantage any time a hand goes on it. I think the rule should be changed. Also, it's not a safety issue, it is a competitive issue.

Also, that first pic I posted of Johnson was not a "grasp" or "pull," but he got under the mask and twisted the helmet and head backward. I think that should be a penalty even the way it is currently written.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I understand the rule, just disagree with it. Many "stiff arms" are really face masks and should be called, but I question the legality of pushing the head back with an open hand to the face mask. The face mask introduces an artificial leverage on the head/neck that provides an unfair advantage any time a hand goes on it. I think the rule should be changed. Also, it's not a safety issue, it is a competitive issue.

Also, that first pic I posted of Johnson was not a "grasp" or "pull," but he got under the mask and twisted the helmet and head backward. I think that should be a penalty even the way it is currently written.
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I get that, but I have no issue with the way the rule is written. Now the way it is actually called is another matter altogether. You do get illegal hands to the face called on linemen a lot. The idea there is to have them stick to blocking and/or trying to get off a block. By allowing an exception for tacklers and ball carriers, there is some wiggle room for incidental contact, as well as some physical play where the ball is. I'd hate to see a stiffarm outlawed. It's bad enough that the horsecollar was outlawed, but you can understand that because of the injury risk. Stiffarming has never resulted in a neck injury that I've seen. Facemasking, yes, but not stiffarming. God you can barely have incidental contact with the head anymore without being whistled for targeting. It's ridiculous...and of course the result is that there are more leg injuries.
 
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