Syracuse Game Time 12:30 pm, RSN

[CONeill]

Only one man is up for this task...

Hey I need you to get a proper picture of Peter!

 

[Rafi]

One more thing. Rafi is content to see a glass with 50% wine so he can proclaim it’s half full. I want red ruddy rhenish filled up to the brim.

Please don’t try to put words in my mouth. I don’t appreciate it.

As I already wrote, I think Wake football can compete for championships, I’m not at all happy with the loss yesterday (nobody is), and I think we’ve had a good season. All of those thoughts can coexist. This isn’t complicated.

I also think we’ll be even better next year, and that Clawson has built a really good program that’s headed in the right direction.

 

[thatguy2016]

Please don’t try to put words in my mouth. I don’t appreciate it.

As I already wrote, I think Wake football can compete for championships, I’m not at all happy with the loss yesterday (nobody is), and I think we’ve had a good season. All of those thoughts can coexist. This isn’t complicated.

I also think we’ll be even better next year, and that Clawson has built a really good program that’s headed in the right direction.

you've stated with relative certainty that Newman and Sage will be back - on what basis?

 

[Deaconblue]

Please don’t try to put words in my mouth. I don’t appreciate it.

As I already wrote, I think Wake football can compete for championships, I’m not at all happy with the loss yesterday (nobody is), and I think we’ve had a good season. All of those thoughts can coexist. This isn’t complicated.

I also think we’ll be even better next year, and that Clawson has built a really good program that’s headed in the right direction.

One of the keys to next season will be completing the turnover of the offensive line. Justin Heron, last of the original "Beef Boys" will be gone. Some of the youngsters will need to step up at the tackle positions. How well they do will have a big impact on Wake's season.

 

[Rafi]

you've stated with relative certainty that Newman and Sage will be back - on what basis?

I’m not certain at all, it’s just what I think will happen. I think Boogie will grade high and go, Newman won’t grade as high and will stay, and Sage will be difficult to project because of injury and he’ll stay.

 

[Rafi]

One of the keys to next season will be completing the turnover of the offensive line. Justin Heron, last of the original "Beef Boys" will be gone. Some of the youngsters will need to step up at the tackle positions. How well they do will have a big impact on Wake's season.

That will be important. I also think we are going to run Walker a lot next year and he’ll be a special player.

 

[DeacAssured]

I agree with many of the comments above. A few positives, lots of negatives(to's and penalties. Yet with that aide and criticisms(deserved about our offense), the most disappointing thing to me was our defense. We never could stop their up the middle runs and when we got them in passing situations, somehow their qb was able to scramble and find open receivers. I still believe that for the most part, our dl is not big enough.

To improve our recruiting which improves that DL size we’ve got to have better results from NEW fans at home games.

 

[PhDeac]

Please don’t try to put words in my mouth. I don’t appreciate it.

As I already wrote, I think Wake football can compete for championships, I’m not at all happy with the loss yesterday (nobody is), and I think we’ve had a good season. All of those thoughts can coexist. This isn’t complicated.

I also think we’ll be even better next year, and that Clawson has built a really good program that’s headed in the right direction.

If you do believe those things and think it should have been a better season, then we agree.

 

[Rafi]

If you do believe those things and think it should have been a better season, then we agree.

I wouldn't write it if I didn't believe it.

 

[PhDeac]

You don't believe or understand what I write, so I wasn't sure.

 

[wfu22fan]

Not sure what to make of the fairly obvious fact that if Hartman starts this game we win. Our 2nd best win was a Hartman start against FSU. He also came in for arguably the biggest loss of the season, Louisville, and had double the QB rating of Newman with 3 TD's in 2 minutes but was too little too late. Donavon Greene had 3 receptions 2+ games with Newman, then goes for 172 yards with Hartman for less than a full game minus some injury time.

Is Newman just a QB that only throws to "his" guys? Is he the type to follow a script instead of actually seeing the field and hitting open receivers? His RPO decision making clearly improved this year but he still doesn't seem to catch teams cheating as often as Hartman or Wolford in this offense.

Granted, this is a system that absolutely requires a great backup QB because of the hits it subjects our QB to, and Newman's size/strength are a good fit. He's won some huge games with some great late heroics. Who knows who will leave and who will stay next year, but 3 years of starters in Hartman, Walker, and Greene sure does look like a rock solid foundation right now.

Greene has 4 more unless he develops like Sage and explodes into NFL material.

 

[TimmyClutch]

Finally got to watch the game today and I’ll be honest I have read the thread and saw the tweets about everyone defending the D so I was going in with that in mind, and while the offense did put them in a hole, those cuse receivers were often wide open at times and Mo Neal looked ended up looking like Cam Akers out there.
Also:
- Greene is not playing like a guy who needed the first 8 games to get college ready, he made guys miss early and often, he was big and fast out there. Would it have made a difference to have him play in the Louisville game?
- Qbs are not the same without Sage, couple balls behind or overhead which may have been catches for Sage were missed balls in this game.
- Watching live the Hinton fumble must have been a huge gut punch. We were driving and looking to win and then WHAM.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Finally got to watch the game today and I’ll be honest I have read the thread and saw the tweets about everyone defending the D so I was going in with that in mind, and while the offense did put them in a hole, those cuse receivers were often wide open at times and Mo Neal looked ended up looking like Cam Akers out there.
Also:
- Greene is not playing like a guy who needed the first 8 games to get college ready, he made guys miss early and often, he was big and fast out there. Would it have made a difference to have him play in the Louisville game?
- Qbs are not the same without Sage, couple balls behind or overhead which may have been catches for Sage were missed balls in this game.
- Watching live the Hinton fumble must have been a huge gut punch. We were driving and looking to win and then WHAM.

I think the staff handled Greene perfectly. If Sage and Scottie had gone down early in the year, then Clawson probably would've burned his shirt, but there was no reason to burn Greene's shirt as good as Sage and Scottie were playing. If Greene was here during Clawson's first couple of years, then he definitely would've burned his shirt because our other receivers were not good then.

 

[jaybone]

Not sure what to make of the fairly obvious fact that if Hartman starts this game we win. Our 2nd best win was a Hartman start against FSU. He also came in for arguably the biggest loss of the season, Louisville, and had double the QB rating of Newman with 3 TD's in 2 minutes but was too little too late. Donavon Greene had 3 receptions 2+ games with Newman, then goes for 172 yards with Hartman for less than a full game minus some injury time.

Is Newman just a QB that only throws to "his" guys? Is he the type to follow a script instead of actually seeing the field and hitting open receivers? His RPO decision making clearly improved this year but he still doesn't seem to catch teams cheating as often as Hartman or Wolford in this offense.

Granted, this is a system that absolutely requires a great backup QB because of the hits it subjects our QB to, and Newman's size/strength are a good fit. He's won some huge games with some great late heroics. Who knows who will leave and who will stay next year, but 3 years of starters in Hartman, Walker, and Greene sure does look like a rock solid foundation right now.

Interesting. My simple observations:

We ran out of emotional gas. Collectively. Injuries played a part for sure, but I think we expended more energy than most getting to 5-0. A lot of close hard fought wins with 4th quarter comebacks and 4th down throws. I expect us to regroup and with three weeks or so to rest and prepare for a bowl, I think we'll play pretty well.

I am somewhat worried we lose Clawson. I think he CAN do better at Wake than he did this year, I really do, but I think we are very lucky that his son is still in high school and daughter who LOVES football and attends most if not all of our home games, is just down the road. The year his daughter graduates and son is in college is the year I will be very uneasy going into our bowl game.

As for our RPO offense - yes, we have essentially run the same offense for four years, but Wolford was just artful with it. Newman and Hartman are pretty good with a lot of time left at Wake. I am reminded of Wolford's first two years and how basic our horrific offense was. For better or worse, Clawson calls plays, allows the offense he feels we can run and not commit turnovers or make mistakes. I wouldn't call it safe. It is more like a parent with a teenager of drivable age. The kid can drive until the moment they make a mistake, and then the keys are taken away after dark. One more mistake and then you are only allowed to drive to school and back. That is his MO. He believes he is putting players in the best possible position to succeed.

If we are lucky (for once) and Newman and Sage come back, then I think he might open things up a bit more next year. I also think we might play both quarterbacks. Hartman runs the RPO differently than Newman and I think Hartman's success against Syracuse was more about HOW he runs it. His RPO is faster and he decides to throw it more. In other words, he takes more chances. When we play teams stacking the line (as our opponents have done with Scotty and Sage out), Hartman's approach is more successful than Newman's.

But anyway, my point is that you come into next year with three new starters on the OL and a lot of returning talent at WR, RB and QB, I think we add more to Newman and Hartman's plate. That has been Clawson MO if you look at Wolford. He likes veteran QBs. He's going to have one or two next year with Kern, whom I think he also trusts to some extent.

Getting to 10 wins with that staff is going to be about finding really good NFL level linebackers. That has been our achilles with this staff in regards to recruiting. I do think some our redshirt LBs could really surprise. For example, I thought Jaylen Hudson looked good on Saturday in limited snaps. I think Jones has looked potentially good. Monroe, not so much.

The next step, I feel, is getting a team cruising to some early victories so by the time you are 4-0 or 6-1, you are just hitting your stride and have plenty of gas left in the tank. I think it'll help to be ranked preseason so that we are NOT fighting tooth and nail for our first national ranking in a decade through the first 4 weeks - then reacting to different interview requests/attention, etc... I also think a preseason ranking - even if it is 25th, will help us fill seats early against Villanova et al. I do think our home schedule next year bodes well attendance wise - Notre Dame (in charlotte), App State, BC, Miami, Syracuse, Clemson. Only Villanova stands out as being a challenge to fill 90% of the seats. I don't think you can overestimate the effect on recruiting preseason ranking have ...

 

[Complacent Deac]

Finally got to watch the game today and I’ll be honest I have read the thread and saw the tweets about everyone defending the D so I was going in with that in mind, and while the offense did put them in a hole, those cuse receivers were often wide open at times and Mo Neal looked ended up looking like Cam Akers out there.
Also:
- Greene is not playing like a guy who needed the first 8 games to get college ready, he made guys miss early and often, he was big and fast out there. Would it have made a difference to have him play in the Louisville game?
- Qbs are not the same without Sage, couple balls behind or overhead which may have been catches for Sage were missed balls in this game.
- Watching live the Hinton fumble must have been a huge gut punch. We were driving and looking to win and then WHAM.

Just re-watched the condensed game (to torture myself) and agree with you, especially about Greene - wow. Also:

Special Teams
We DID finally setup a punt block on 4th and 13 and to the credit of our special teams coach - great design. Easy block, could not see what number and our guy, probably due to lack of practice, just missed the punt block. Wide open lane to punter.

Also, on the 27-27 field goal, #24 for the Deacs was inserted to try and block the FG (regulation) and he absolutely SKIED, but missed it. Donavan Greene.

Pooch kicks: the 2 I saw, they returned to the 34 and the 35. Might as well just kick it out of bounds.

Sciba's miss (finally - best season in NCAA, not really close by anyone else): did not catch why our holder had to practice on the sidelines after the miss or whatever that was. Was an odd kick, since all of Sciba's kicks seem to start right and bend back in.

Defense
Taylor got burned badly. Rucker looked good in run defense, T. Redd got completely toasted, nearly as bad as Taylor. Taylor cannot start at CB next year.

Basham: got credited with something like 2 TFL's or hurries, or whatever, but he was all over the field. He was the one guy who looked fast on that turf. The rest of our guys played like they were afraid to pull a hammy. Basham got held badly in OT, too. Could have made it longer FG. No call.

Offense
Newman cannot do that. Hartman should maybe start the bowl game, based on that gutsy performance. Hartman blew it though, with overthrows, and the 1 in OT was just devastating.

Hinton and Steve Claude: terrific job. If Hinton is down about that freak play - it just happened to Lamar Jackson, so show him that tape. It's ok.

Cuse's Neal: made him look like Tony Dorsett. Guys afraid to stick him (except Rucker) and guys just put their hands out and ankle tackled. Not good from DB's.

Cuse D: Donavan and the TD run by Cade --- they don't even try to tackle, just strip.

Syracuse is terrible. But we played to their awful level, especially our DB's just skipping around, not hitting.

 

[jaybone]

I am not with you guys on Greene. Absolutely he is special, but he got muscled off a deep ball late in the 2nd quarter which was similar to him getting muscled off the ball late in the 2nd quarter against Clemson that directly resulted in an INT and return and game over TD. I do love the 4 game rule though. Greene has had just enough success and just enough failure to roll into the off season like Sage did last year. He now knows exactly how strong he has to be to fight off most really good CBs running down the sideline. Things Sage got infinitely better at from his redshirt frosh year (he didn't get to play his redshirt season as I recall) to this one. I expect us to have two hongry wideouts next year. The question will be the slot.

 

[Wakefan77]

Interesting. My simple observations:
s
We ran out of emotional gas. Collectively. Injuries played a part for sure, but I think we expended more energy than most getting to 5-0. A lot of close hard fought wins with 4th quarter comebacks and 4th down throws. I expect us to regroup and with three weeks or so to rest and prepare for a bowl, I think we'll play pretty well.

I am somewhat worried we lose Clawson. I think he CAN do better at Wake than he did this year, I really do, but I think we are very lucky that his son is still in high school and daughter who LOVES football and attends most if not all of our home games, is just down the road. The year his daughter graduates and son is in college is the year I will be very uneasy going into our bowl game.

As for our RPO offense - yes, we have essentially run the same offense for four years, but Wolford was just artful with it. Newman and Hartman are pretty good with a lot of time left at Wake. I am reminded of Wolford's first two years and how basic our horrific offense was. For better or worse, Clawson calls plays, allows the offense he feels we can run and not commit turnovers or make mistakes. I wouldn't call it safe. It is more like a parent with a teenager of drivable age. The kid can drive until the moment they make a mistake, and then the keys are taken away after dark. One more mistake and then you are only allowed to drive to school and back. That is his MO. He believes he is putting players in the best possible position to succeed.

If we are lucky (for once) and Newman and Sage come back, then I think he might open things up a bit more next year. I also think we might play both quarterbacks. Hartman runs the RPO differently than Newman and I think Hartman's success against Syracuse was more about HOW he runs it. His RPO is faster and he decides to throw it more. In other words, he takes more chances. When we play teams stacking the line (as our opponents have done with Scotty and Sage out), Hartman's approach is more successful than Newman's.

But anyway, my point is that you come into next year with three new starters on the OL and a lot of returning talent at WR, RB and QB, I think we add more to Newman and Hartman's plate. That has been Clawson MO if you look at Wolford. He likes veteran QBs. He's going to have one or two next year with Kern, whom I think he also trusts to some extent.

Getting to 10 wins with that staff is going to be about finding really good NFL level linebackers. That has been our achilles with this staff in regards to recruiting. I do think some our redshirt LBs could really surprise. For example, I thought Jaylen Hudson looked good on Saturday in limited snaps. I think Jones has looked potentially good. Monroe, not so much.

The next step, I feel, is getting a team cruising to some early victories so by the time you are 4-0 or 6-1, you are just hitting your stride and have plenty of gas left in the tank. I think it'll help to be ranked preseason so that we are NOT fighting tooth and nail for our first national ranking in a decade through the first 4 weeks - then reacting to different interview requests/attention, etc... I also think a preseason ranking - even if it is 25th, will help us fill seats early against Villanova et al. I do think our home schedule next year bodes well attendance wise - Notre Dame (in charlotte), App State, BC, Miami, Syracuse, Clemson. Only Villanova stands out as being a challenge to fill 90% of the seats. I don't think you can overestimate the effect on recruiting preseason ranking have ...

There will be a ton of hype for that App St. game and I expect it to be a good one especially if we have Newman and Sage back. The only thing that sucks is that it's on a Friday night. I agree about the other games though. I just wish that when Wake plays Clemson next year that we could at least fill half the East side with Black especially if the team is doing well. Anyone know what App. has coming back next year?

 

[Pilchard]

App will be solid next year. They should return their QB, leading RB, top 3 receivers and 4 of their 5 starters on the OL. They will lose more on their D, 6 starters, including their two leading tacklers.

With that said, the key loss may be their coach Drinkwitz. He has been linked to the Arkansas job, and he could take some of the Apps redshirt juniors with him. If Drinkwitz returns, App could be ranked to open next season.

 

[jaybone]

App will be solid next year. They should return their QB, leading RB, top 3 receivers and 4 of their 5 starters on the OL. They will lose more on their D, 6 starters, including their two leading tacklers.

With that said, the key loss may be their coach Drinkwitz. He has been linked to the Arkansas job, and he could take some of the Apps redshirt juniors with him. If Drinkwitz returns, App could be ranked to open next season.

I think we'll be ranked if all we lose is Boogie.

 

[netflixnchildres]

I think we'll be ranked if all we lose is Boogie.

Doubtful. We'll probably be projected to go 7-5.