Tanner cleared to return, but coaches wouldn't let him back in?

[wakedeac98]

Obviously. Having an MRI performed equates to the possibility of having a serious injury. And that's enough to be cautious with a guy like Price.

No it doesn't. On average, let's say 10 are done a week on a typical college team. Any player who tweaks something at practice usually will come in the next morning for a scan. From summer practice through December, that's conservatively about 200 MRI's. Let's also assume the average team has about 10 serious injuries per year (which is probably a little high). So the chances of an MRI showing a serious injury are around 5%. And I'd argue those odds significantly decrease after an orthopaedic surgeon does an exam and clears someone. No, those kind of odds do not mean there is a serious risk of significant injury by just getting an MRI. This is exactly what I do professionally and you are wrong.

Grobe is an ultra conservative. He made the call to hold Tanner out even though the risk of a serious injury was extremely minimal. That's just who he is. There are many other coaches who probably wouldn't have.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

No it doesn't. On average, let's say 10 are done a week on a typical college team. Any player who tweaks something at practice usually will come in the next morning for a scan. From summer practice through December, that's conservatively about 200 MRI's. Let's also assume the average team has about 10 serious injuries per year (which is probably a little high). So the chances of an MRI showing a serious injury are around 5%. And I'd argue those odds significantly decrease after an orthopaedic surgeon does an exam and clears someone. No, those kind of odds do not mean there is a serious risk of significant injury by just getting an MRI. This is exactly what I do professionally and you are wrong.

Grobe is an ultra conservative. He made the call to hold Tanner out even though the risk of a serious injury was extremely minimal. That's just who he is. There are many other coaches who probably wouldn't have.

"No it doesn't."

"the chances of an MRI showing a serious injury are around 5%"

Does not compute.

 

[wsc8521s]

Annoyingly, if our LT hadn't held, I don't think Price would've been hit in a way that would have injured him.

Talk about a double whammy

 

[The Stig]

On this one, I agree with Grobe. How much more shit would we be throwing if he'd put Tanner back out there, he took one hit and crumpled with a shattered knee or severed ACL? The right call was to keep him out. The wrong call was to sit on the ball like it was a damn egg for the final two minutes of each half.

 

[wakedeac98]

"No it doesn't."

"the chances of an MRI showing a serious injury are around 5%"

Does not compute.

Let me explain it like this for your feeble mind.

If one was told by pure randomness and chance that their odds of winning a bet were 95% and there also was an expert in the field that they are betting on that has insider info and said he was fairly confident that it's a safe bet given what he knows, wouldn't you say it was fairly safe to not only ok to make the bet, but to wager fairly heavily on it?

Does that compute?

You can argue semantics all you want, but you are wrong in this case. You make an Rjkarl statement like it was fact on a subject that you do not know that much about. Someone with more knowledge about that subject disproved what you said, then you backtrack on your stance and try to argue unimportant details instead of admitting you were wrong.

 

[deacvision7]

On this one, I agree with Grobe. How much more shit would we be throwing if he'd put Tanner back out there, he took one hit and crumpled with a shattered knee or severed ACL? The right call was to keep him out. The wrong call was to sit on the ball like it was a damn egg for the final two minutes of each half.

The next time Tanner plays he could have his leg broken in two. Doesn't mean Grobe would be wrong to play him.

It's football. The guys wearing the other colored helmets are trying to hurt our players. That's the game they are playing.

 

[deacvision7]

Let me explain it like this for your feeble mind.

If one was told by pure randomness and chance that their odds of winning a bet were 95% and there also was an expert in the field that they are betting on that has insider info and said he was fairly confident that it's a safe bet given what he knows, wouldn't you say it was fairly safe to not only ok to make the bet, but to wager fairly heavily on it?

Does that compute?

You can argue semantics all you want, but you are wrong in this case. You make an Rjkarl statement like it was fact on a subject that you do not know that much about. Someone with more knowledge about that subject disproved what you said, then you backtrack on your stance and try to argue unimportant details instead of admitting you were wrong.

Boom. Roasted.

 

[wakedeac98]

I never said that Grobe's decision was right or wrong. I personally don't agree with it, but he is who he is. He's the boss of that team, and he has to make decisions based on his comfort level. He's a super conservative coach on the field, and this decision was very much in line with that nature.

All I had a problem with was thinking that just because something gets an MRI means that it must be serious. It's not, and I tried to explain that it's not even close. I do apologize for my tone.

I work in a group that reads for two SEC teams. Just this past week one of the teams best players came in for his second MRI in the past two weeks. This kid is one of their top players and a big time pro prospect. It didn't make the news and they never released a hint that he was injured. He never even missed a practice.

The college teams (and even moreso the professional ones) will MRI people for almost nothing, even when their index of suspicion is very low for something serious. So no, I wholeheartedly do not believe that simply by having an MRI means that they are that worried about it.

 

[TBR]

I don't think people would be making a big deal about this at all if Grobe wasn't consistently in the press complaining about players not being willing to play through injuries.

 

[DirkTheDeac]

I don't think people would be making a big deal about this at all if Grobe wasn't consistently in the press complaining about players not being willing to play through injuries.

Fruit cup.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Let me explain it like this for your feeble mind.

If one was told by pure randomness and chance that their odds of winning a bet were 95% and there also was an expert in the field that they are betting on that has insider info and said he was fairly confident that it's a safe bet given what he knows, wouldn't you say it was fairly safe to not only ok to make the bet, but to wager fairly heavily on it?

Does that compute?

You can argue semantics all you want, but you are wrong in this case. You make an Rjkarl statement like it was fact on a subject that you do not know that much about. Someone with more knowledge about that subject disproved what you said, then you backtrack on your stance and try to argue unimportant details instead of admitting you were wrong.

Seriously, what are you talking about? All I said was that the MRI proves there was a possibility of a serious injury -- and you, the expert, confirmed that. What "does not compute" was you saying there was no possibility of having a serious injury, then in the same post admitting a 5% chance of said injury.

Your bet analogy is poor. First, this is a kid's health we are talking about. Secondly, even if there was a 95% chance of "winning", the stakes on the two sides weren't even. The risk from that 5% far outweighs the other 95%. If you are correct that there was a 5% chance Price was seriously hurt, there's no way we should have let him back on the field.

 

[awaken]

Did everyone double-take when in the first half the TV announcers said that our coaching staff would "keep their foot on the accelerator" when playing with a lead? WTF?

 

[PhDeac]

John Bunting's view of Jim Grobe is evidence of why he isn't a head coach anymore.

 

[mebanedeac]

John Bunting's view of Jim Grobe is evidence of why he isn't a head coach anymore.

Jim Grobe is a major reason that John Bunting is no longer coaching. I thought he showed class in his comments...even if not entirely accurate.

 

[PhDeac]

Oh no doubt he was classy. It was just funny to see a former ACC coach portray Grobe as some type of riverboat gambler. While our style in the early years may have been innovative, the execution has always been conservative.

The idea that we should be wary of a fake FG had me rolling.

 

[mebanedeac]

Oh no doubt he was classy. It was just funny to see a former ACC coach portray Grobe as some type of riverboat gambler. While our style in the early years may have been innovative, the execution has always been conservative.

The idea that we should be wary of a fake FG had me rolling.

He obviously has not watched as much WF football as we have!

 

[jhmd2000]

Get serious. He was lying on the ground for 3 minutes and had to be helped off the field. Now he's getting an MRI. The outrage over this is bewildering.

Agree. There were two smart plays to be made here.

1) Take a long term view in a very young sseason (for team and player) and be cautious with the most important player on your team.

2) Have a coherent victory-focused contingent plan using his alternate.

One out of two ain't bad.

 

[dmcheatw]

Obviously. Having an MRI performed equates to the possibility of having a serious injury. And that's enough to be cautious with a guy like Price.

it seems like since the trainers said he was good to go they must have felt 75% sure or better (probably better) he was fine.

it's a matter of opinion but don't expect a lot of people to agree with that opinion, especially when the immediate downsides were so clear as time went on. keeping him out for regulation I can understand maybe if you really wanna play it safe, but keeping him out for OT when we knew we needed six?

for me this really does drive home the larger, common criticism of grobe: overcautious and too conservative, no killer instinct.

he held price out on the chance he might aggravate and injury that doctors believed he didn't have to begin with, knowing full well the problems in our D down the stretch and that we needed a TD in OT.

caution is good, overcautious isn't.

 

[mrdavetv]

On my second check with Dr. Martin in the 4th quarter, I as told (and reported on the radio broadcast) that Price was "doubtful" to return. Apparently, more of you should be tuning into the Deacon radio calls.

Anecdotally (sp?), Tanner was walking with a limp in the lockerroom and in the airport while waiting to board the flight home.

 

[mebanedeac]

On my second check with Dr. Martin in the 4th quarter, I as told (and reported on the radio broadcast) that Price was "doubtful" to return. Apparently, more of you should be tuning into the Deacon radio calls.

Anecdotally (sp?), Tanner was walking with a limp in the lockerroom and in the airport while waiting to board the flight home.

hey mrdave!

hopefully he will be full speed very soon!