Tar Holes NOA from the NCAA

[jhmd2000]

Ahhh...no. They didn't look the other way as it got out of control because of sports. They looked the other way because of how it helped non-athlete minorities. IMO....helping minorities get a UNC degree was the goal of AFAM. No one was going to attack AFAM because they'd be called racists....the sacred cow identity program. It was unassailable. So they had no problem letting it run on autopilot and get worse as long as those graduation metrics kept rolling in. That's the elephant in the room. Sports benefited too...so a win for athletics seeking Ws and a win for your white guilt laden academic administrators.

You mean the entire AFAM Department wasn't manufactured just to beat Wake Forest in basketball? Are you sure?

Most honest people know full well that elevating an identity studies curriculum to a campus level academic department was a---unique---gesture. Go back and read the comments from the Chancellor at the time. Thorp added some gems along the way too.

Athletics knew how little supervision that AFAM was going to get because of the current academic climate, and made a living in the shadows of academic oversight.

AFAM was the original safe space.

 

[deaconson]

"Don't worry guys. take the fake classes now and we can pretend later that it's someone else's fault (shhh it's those minorities that did this to us). The NCAA won't take away our cheated for championships."

 

[jhmd2000]

"Don't worry guys. take the fake classes now and we can pretend later that it's someone else's fault (shhh it's those minorities that did this to us). The NCAA won't take away our cheated for championships."

You got it. The State of North Carolina chose to fund, staff and credential a campus-level academic department solely to beat N.C. State and Wake Forest in basketball. Nothing gets by you.

It was a coin flip between the Physics Department and AFAM. Physics was heads but fate had other plans.

 

[Say Hey Deac]

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/unc-scandal/article69262627.html

UNC-Chapel Hill, which is under investigation for fraudulent classes involving athletes, has maintained that students were not subjected to a limit on independent studies until the 2006-07 academic year.

That stance appears to have narrowed one key part of the NCAA’s investigation.

But a new document released by the university in March shows that the limit on independent studies started before 2003. Other evidence suggests that the limit was in place since the early 1990s.

In response to a long-standing public records request from The News & Observer, UNC provided a 2003 faculty report that proposed numerous curriculum changes.

Deep within the report, the authors cited a 12-hour independent studies limit. Noting that curriculum changes can’t happen if they run counter to General College and Arts and Sciences guidelines, the report said: “That might mean, for example, considering whether to reaffirm the current rule that an Arts and Sciences student can count toward graduation only twelve hours of independent study.”

The start date of that 12-credit-hour limit is critical because the NCAA considers that athletes who exceeded it received an impermissible benefit.

If they get to keep the 2005 national title, the NCAA should just go ahead and kick itself in the nuts and burn down its building.

 

[jhmd2000]

If they get to keep the 2005 national title, the NCAA should just go ahead and kick itself in the nuts and burn down its building.

Did you see the game the NCAA played to keep Pryor in the Fiesta Bowl?

 

[DeaconBrews]

If they get to keep the 2005 national title, the NCAA should just go ahead and kick itself in the nuts and burn down its building.

or '93

 

[deaconson]

You got it. The State of North Carolina chose to fund, staff and credential a campus-level academic department solely to beat N.C. State and Wake Forest in basketball. Nothing gets by you.

It was a coin flip between the Physics Department and AFAM. Physics was heads but fate had other plans.

i will go out on a limb and say the state of nc did not know about the fake classes. just certain people at the university of north carolina. those people were cheaters. and the cheating helped keep kids eligible that helped the university's sports team win. and often, win big.

keep enabling and making excuses for a culture of cheating. as a wake fan i'm all too familiar with what enabling a sh!tty situation can do.

 

[jhmd2000]

i will go out on a limb and say the state of nc did not know about the fake classes. just certain people at the university of north carolina. those people were cheaters. and the cheating helped keep kids eligible that helped the university's sports team win. and often, win big.

keep enabling and making excuses for a culture of cheating. as a wake fan i'm all too familiar with what enabling a sh!tty situation can do.

It helps to have context and history for the creation of AFAM and the Stone Center, and campus culture, which admittedly is unfair to ask of you since you didn't go to school there. If you want to view the AFAM department as a creation of the UNC-Athletics-Industrial-Complex, there is clearly no stopping you, but please understand that you're not aware of even a portion of the history of the department. The fact is the people in athletics who broke the rules were well aware of the weak spots in the academic wood and knew the places on campus to do their dirty work. That they got away with it for so long actually proves the point I'm making (and that you are not interested in). I'm cool with that, since you're not actually interested in UNC's campus culture. You care about sports. I got it.

 

[deaconson]

It helps to have context and history for the creation of AFAM and the Stone Center, and campus culture, which admittedly is unfair to ask of you since you didn't go to school there. If you want to view the AFAM department as a creation of the UNC-Athletics-Industrial-Complex, there is clearly no stopping you, but please understand that you're not aware of even a portion of the history of the department. The fact is the people in athletics who broke the rules were well aware of the weak spots in the academic wood and knew the places on campus to do their dirty work. That they got away with it for so long actually proves the point I'm making (and that you are not interested in). I'm cool with that, since you're not actually interested in UNC's campus culture. You care about sports. I got it.

you are correct. don't care about campus culture at unc. this thread is about cheaters, enablers, benefiting from cheating, and punishment for that cheating. don't care why there was an environment that enabled "educators" (aka coaches, professors, academic advisers etc) at unc to benefit from cheating.

 

[jhmd2000]

you are correct. don't care about campus culture at unc. this thread is about cheaters, enablers, benefiting from cheating, and punishment for that cheating. don't care why there was an environment that enabled "educators" (aka coaches, professors, academic advisers etc) at unc to benefit from cheating.

Putting aside the Potter Stewart definition, please define cheating. Keep in mind, UNC agrees what happened was against the rules, and by definition "cheating."

 

[ClemmonsDeac]

I love the idea that Roy didn't know there were fake classes, but he was concerned that most of the basketball players were clustered in one major. Why would that bother you if you didn't know of the cheating? I can hear it now - I am concerned about a cluster of athletes majoring in accounting; I am concerned about a cluster of athletes majoring in Pre-med.

Keep on keeping on UNC faithful. Do not be dissuaded by the facts! Don't loose heart over common sense! Anything is plausible if you are gullible enough or blinded by bias.

(Oh, and yes, I do think this is all a scheme to beat Wake, State, and anyone else out there. That is what kept the $$$$$ flowing)

 

[deaconson]

define cheating? words are wind. you and i both know what cheating is.

the only question now is what happens in the aftermath of the widest ranging academic fraud in ncaa history?

 

[awaken]

My only consolation is that one of two institutions will go down: NCAA or UNC.

If the NCAA goes light on UNC, public opinion and member institutions will be wagging their finger at them if not outright mocking them.

Low ratings of a UNC Championship game would be a shot across the bow of the NCAA.

 

[Say Hey Deac]

or '93

While my feelings about UNC athletics are well known, to show that I am not an Abe Simpson crackpot, I won't even go there.

I do, however, think that 2005 title is a complete mockery and if they keep that particular title after all this, there is no point to even having a NCAA. For chrissakes:

The spreadsheet identifies students who had enrolled in more than 12 hours of independent study and “anomalous courses” from mid-2000 to mid-2011.

That presumably would include Rashad McCants, whose transcript shows he took nothing but fake classes in the semester during the championship run. He had taken seven others prior to that semester, making a total of 11, or 33 hours.

During the 2004-05 national title season, records show the team accounted for 35 enrollments in fake classes.

 

[jhmd2000]

define cheating? words are wind. you and i both know what cheating is.

the only question now is what happens in the aftermath of the widest ranging academic fraud in ncaa history?

Okay. Would that include admitting an academically unprepared student because he happened to be good a basketball?

 

[Deacsfan27]

Okay. Would that include admitting an academically unprepared student because he happened to be good a basketball?

That would include athletes in all sports takin made up classes for over 25 years and getting credit for it.

 

[Strickland33]

jhmd celebrates UNC's athletics success, openly supports its programs, extensively trolls Wake fans on a message board, and then turns around and blames a department chair and student athletes for what is pretty clearly an institutional problem.

It sounds like somebody took too many paper classes.

 

[jhmd2000]

jhmd celebrates UNC's athletics success, openly supports its programs, extensively trolls Wake fans on a message board, and then turns around and blames a department chair and student athletes for what is pretty clearly an institutional problem.

It sounds like somebody took too many paper classes.

I didn't take many identity studies classes in my day. Where are you going to watch the game on Saturday?

ETA: A department chair that was criminally charged? Yes. Yes I did blame him. I'm quirky like that.

 

[scooter84]

I didn't take many identity studies classes in my day. Where are you going to watch the game on Saturday?

ETA: A department chair that was criminally charged? Yes. Yes I did blame him. I'm quirky like that.

Of course the dept. chair and the administrator who ran the program are to blame. But what about the academic advisers to the various teams who worked with the administrator and knew the nature of the courses and who steered countless athletes into those courses for years? What about the coaches who employed and supposedly oversaw those academic advisers and who likely knew the nature of the courses and how they were keeping athletes eligible? And, even if those coaches didn't know the details but turned a purposely blind eye - isn't that the very definition of lack of institutional control? Especially when it went on so long? How much blame should those coaches share?

I know I am wasting my time here but any UNC fan who is anything other than embarrassed and disgusted by this whole thing... I don't even know what to say.

 

[Deacsfan27]

To be fair, most UNC grads that I know are disgusted by it.

We just shouldn't expect an internet troll on a Wake Forest message board to admit to it.