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Taxing Capital Gains

PhDeac said:
Like education? C'mon man.

Elect better people to use your taxes. Paying your dues to be a damn American isn't the problem.
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We've been trying to elect better people, but people like you are getting in the way and insisting on wasting money.

Should every one have to pay some dues or only people you think make too much money?
 
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jhmd2000 said:
The person who installs Verizon fiber optics should buy Verizon stock with his disposable income. If he follows that incentive over the course of his career (and diversifies those investments over time), he will make a lot more money owning Verizon than working for Verizon.

The person who installs Verizon fiber optics and (truly) doesn't have any disposable income to buy Verizon stock probably doesn't pay any income tax at all, and would be a fool to want to trade effective tax rates with anyone.
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Crank the minimum wage up and get some disposable income for these people to invest?
 
DeacMan said:
We've been trying to elect better people, but people like you are getting in the way and insisting on wasting money.

Should every one have to pay some dues or only people you think make too much money?
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Everyone pays dues. Don't start that whole "half of Americans don't pay taxes" lie. People who have more pay more and get more for it.

2&2, everybody has deductions, tax breaks, and loopholes. Very few people are paying full price.

ONW, "what disposable income?" is the next question. When are conservatives going to provide a blueprint for people to follow to move up the ladder? McDonald's tried and embarrassed themselves.
 
ONW said:
Crank the minimum wage up and get some disposable income for these people to invest?
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That doesn't work. The people making minimum wage are spending their money at the same places that pay their own workers minimum wage so must raise their prices to pay the increased minimum wage. So the guy makes $1 more but has to pay $1 more for his McNugget meal and $1 more for his stuff at WalMart. It is a relatively closed system within which artificial elevation of the floor doesn't get you anywhere. The only way to increase his purchasing power is to make his services more valuable than those at the bottom, but you still need those at the bottom to set the floor.
 
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PhDeac said:
Everyone pays dues. Don't start that whole "half of Americans don't pay taxes" lie. People who have more pay more and get more for it.

2&2, everybody has deductions, tax breaks, and loopholes. Very few people are paying full price.

ONW, "what disposable income?" is the next question. When are conservatives going to provide a blueprint for people to follow to move up the ladder? McDonald's tried and embarrassed themselves.
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Really, I get more than you? Please do explain. Should be a wonderful expose of ignorance and bullshit.

So far as I can tell I drive on the same roads as you, get the same protection from the military as you, receive absolutely no government assistance for unemployment, etc., and pay more than you. So no, I don't get, anything "more" than you. And I don't think it is at all unreasonable that every single person who receives income pays some form of income tax. How else do people feel vesting in our tax system than if they pay taxes?
 
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DeacMan said:
Really, I get more than you? Please do explain. Should be a wonderful expose of ignorance and bullshit.

So far as I can tell I drive on the same roads as you, get the same protection from the military as you, receive absolutely no government assistance for unemployment, etc., and pay more than you. So no, I don't get, anything "more" than you. And I don't think it is at all unreasonable that every single person who receives income pays some form of income tax. How else do people feel vesting in our tax system than if they pay taxes?
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You condescending piece of shit. You think you know all from a fucking message board? Just because I advocate for people who don't have doesn't mean I'm some 47% moocher. For you to take "People who have more pay more and get more for it" into something personal between you and me speaks volumes. What the hell is your problem?
 
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We were having a nice discussion about taxes and he used a ton of assumptions to make it personal. I don't know what this guy's problem is.

I should address his ridiculous point though. Those who have more, have more to lose without the infrastructure provide by local, state, federal governments. Those who have more benefit more from the transportation of goods and services on the roads. If the military isn't working, DeacMan has more to lose from the threats to his money bin than I have to the outhouse I live in when I'm not panhandling. The idea that all government does is take from the pockets of the rich is foolish, especially when you consider the extent to which government lines the pockets of the rich.

DeacMan, how much of your capital gains come from companies draw a large percentage of their business from government contracts? How about companies that get significant tax breaks and incentives paid for my taxpayers?
 
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Claiming more to lose without a military is a weak argument
 
Not just military. Government props up our "free market" system.
 
PhDeac said:
We were having a nice discussion about taxes and he used a ton of assumptions to make it personal. I don't know what this guy's problem is.

I should address his ridiculous point though. Those who have more, have more to lose without the infrastructure provide by local, state, federal governments. Those who have more benefit more from the transportation of goods and services on the roads. If the military isn't working, DeacMan has more to lose from the threats to his money bin than I have to the outhouse I live in when I'm not panhandling. The idea that all government does is take from the pockets of the rich is foolish, especially when you consider the extent to which government lines the pockets of the rich.

DeacMan, how much of your capital gains come from companies draw a large percentage of their business from government contracts? How about companies that get significant tax breaks and incentives paid for my taxpayers?
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One of my resolutions is to be nicer to Ph, but this might be the


post of the year. He and I will still have a beer at a Wake home football game this year, though.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
Eh, maybe the gain hasn't been taxed twice but to be in a position to pay capital gains, you've already been taxed at every conceivable rate before making an investment with the potential to create a gain. So sure, the gain hasn't been taxed, but the act of investing surely has. And as a result, if the overall investment works out in your favor and provides any kind of return, that return is taxed. And the driveway that you drive down on your property that you pay property taxes on, in your car that you paid sales tax on, using the gas that you also paid sales tax on, to get your investment statement showing those realized gains...was all 'paid' for with after-tax dollars. Oh, and you owe tax on your car too. This after you paid your toll road fees going to and from work, where oh yeah, you were taxed there too.

Fucking hell man. I hate taxes.
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In other words, if you make income it is taxed and if you own property, it is taxed.
 
PhDeac said:
We were having a nice discussion about taxes and he used a ton of assumptions to make it personal. I don't know what this guy's problem is.

I should address his ridiculous point though. Those who have more, have more to lose without the infrastructure provide by local, state, federal governments. Those who have more benefit more from the transportation of goods and services on the roads. If the military isn't working, DeacMan has more to lose from the threats to his money bin than I have to the outhouse I live in when I'm not panhandling. The idea that all government does is take from the pockets of the rich is foolish, especially when you consider the extent to which government lines the pockets of the rich.

DeacMan, how much of your capital gains come from companies draw a large percentage of their business from government contracts? How about companies that get significant tax breaks and incentives paid for my taxpayers?
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Dude. I have no idea why your undies got in such a twist. I've been practicing law for 25 years. I just "assume" I make more money than a sociology professor. That isn't some statement of superiority. I'm not sitting on a PhD for shit's sake. I just happen to be in a profession that pays well. Yiptee friggin' do. I hardly decided to become a lawyer because it would make me wildly wealthy. It more than pays the bills, but I've spent my life working for people who really have hit the proverbial "jackpot". Law is hardly glamorous. But I like working on deals. Good for me. I presume you chose your profession because you wanted to be a professor. Good for you.

And this notion that I somehow get more from the government than you or anyone else who pays taxes is just laughable. I don't. You're the one proclaiming people who make more somehow "get" more from the government. And now you are pretending that I somehow have more to lose without the government propping us all up. Which is also laughable. Anyone posting here could do just fine with quite a bit less government.

As for this question about "capital gains" - who the hell knows? You think I sit around trying to figure out if Qualcomm gets lots of money from government contracts when I buy a couple hundred shares?
 
PhDeac said:
I should address his ridiculous point though. Those who have more, have more to lose without the infrastructure provide by local, state, federal governments. Those who have more benefit more from the transportation of goods and services on the roads. If the military isn't working, DeacMan has more to lose from the threats to his money bin than I have to the outhouse I live in when I'm not panhandling. The idea that all government does is take from the pockets of the rich is foolish, especially when you consider the extent to which government lines the pockets of the rich.
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And now let's address this little gem.

I PAY more than you. Perhaps I should have MORE say. That's just as fucking ludicrous as what you've posted in the above.

The government does pathetically little to support my "money bin". They are going to bankrupt social security before I retire. I'll get nothing there and neither will you. They pave the roads with more of my money than your's. Last time I checked you like the fact trucks bring you food to eat just as much as me and benefit from being able to drive to work just like me. They defend our country with my money. Last time I checked you like being defended just as much as me. It isn't like they come by my house and provide me with added security because I draw a bigger pay check than you. And they don't pave the road in front of my house and sooner than they do the one in front of your house.

If I didn't know any better you might as well suggest I get more of a say in how we're governed than you because I make a bit more money each year than you. Which, naturally, would be preposterous.

And if I didn't know any better you almost seem to take the position that your ability to save for retirement matters to you less than my ability to do so does to me just because I make more money than you. Wouldn't the opposite actually be true. I need the government less than you do to get ahead in life just because I happened to choose a different profession than you.

And before you get your undies in a wad again, your profession isn't somehow "inferior" to mine or any other which might pay better than yours. People make all sorts of choices in life that are based on what is "best" for them. Many of them recognize they could have made more money if they'd chosen to do something else. Lots of people on this board could have become an investment banker. I'm sure you're one of them. The fact you didn't choose that lifestyle is perfectly fine. I wouldn't want that lifestyle either.
 
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