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Teacher Throws Panty Party for Grade Schoolers

Coach O said:
Granted, this was back in the 90's, but I can't see how I could have taught and coached and successfully fulfilled this requirement, unless I would have shown up 1 minute before the bell rang in the morning and left 1 minute after it rang in the afternoon and not given a crap about the kids.
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Worked at a summer camp in Texas this summer and they were really adament about not being one on one with campers. It's really hard to follow that rule but once you make it the standard you can protect yourself against any allegations. Even if a kid wanted to walk back to get his baseball glove, I had to bring another kid or counselor along. Standard procedure in today's world and will be pushed even harder in the US at camps and in sports after this years scandals.
 
Another vote here for the "this is not extreme" camp. I worked at a summer church camp in the 90s-early 00s and we were taught then not to be alone with campers. If you need to have a private conversation, do it where people can see you. Pretty simple, and not very extreme.
 
Manifest Destiny said:
Worked at a summer camp in Texas this summer and they were really adament about not being one on one with campers. It's really hard to follow that rule but once you make it the standard you can protect yourself against any allegations. Even if a kid wanted to walk back to get his baseball glove, I had to bring another kid or counselor along. Standard procedure in today's world and will be pushed even harder in the US at camps and in sports after this years scandals.
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I think day and overnight camps and private schools are a little ahead of public institutions on the issue.

Coach O, it's not so much that adults can't be alone with kids, it's that they shouldn't be alone with one kid out of view. At the heart of things, that is where problems start.
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
I think day and overnight camps and private schools are a little ahead of public institutions on the issue.

Coach O, it's not so much that adults can't be alone with kids, it's that they shouldn't be alone with one kid out of view. At the heart of things, that is where problems start.
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I would say that abusers and pedophiles shouldn't be alone with one kid out of view. Good teachers, counselors and coaches should be able to give kids rides home, etc.

And FWIW, I am the parent of a 17 year old and a 13 year old. Other parents, other coaches and other teachers have all given my kids rides home, molestation free. Guess I am lucky.
 
I work with Youth as well. In the world of youth-work today, it is standard operating procedure to never be alone with a child...ever. It doesn't matter if an organization is faith-based or not. In my line of work, we always teach our counselors to have another counselor or child with them so that they won't be alone with another child, for the reasons DF07 provided. That's just the way it goes, and frankly, if you want to always have your rear end covered, you'll abide by the procedures. People who work with kids operate under microscopic conditions. My wife is a teacher for DPS, and she operates under the same assumptions and guidelines as well.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
It's not either or. Is there another kid or staff member that could ride too?
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Cautious and well planned... but if the girl decides to cry rape, true or not, everyone in the car is in trouble. Heck, pack the whole vehicle! You're still in trouble. If 22 kids can bring over 100 charges of rape, pornography, and murder down on one man who is later proven innocent on all counts, what kind of damage do you think one girl can do?
Honestly, I don't think Hoops is doing anything inappropriate by making sure the girl gets home safe. Calling DSS and dumping the girl into a system rife with abuse and uncertainty is certainly worse than leaving her at home with people who care for her plus one ass hole. Making her walk home is probably more likely to lead to disastrous results for the girl and the church than carting her the ten minutes home and keeping her safe.
 
KnightTymeToy said:
Cautious and well planned... but if the girl decides to cry rape, true or not, everyone in the car is in trouble. Heck, pack the whole vehicle! You're still in trouble. If 22 kids can bring over 100 charges of rape, pornography, and murder down on one man who is later proven innocent on all counts, what kind of damage do you think one girl can do?
Honestly, I don't think Hoops is doing anything inappropriate by making sure the girl gets home safe. Calling DSS and dumping the girl into a system rife with abuse and uncertainty is certainly worse than leaving her at home with people who care for her plus one ass hole. Making her walk home is probably more likely to lead to disastrous results for the girl and the church than carting her the ten minutes home and keeping her safe.
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I specifically said she wasn't doing anything inappropriate, but it wasn't best practice or the safest option.
 
Coach O said:
I would argue that there are many, many, many, many, many, MANY more teachers who do right by the kids, than don't.

Like 99.9%.

And the benefit to the kids from the teachers who do the right thing is astronomical. Unmeasurable.

These "countless" stories of adults abusing kids are actually very countable. It's the good that is done by teachers, coaches, volunteers, etc. who go way above and beyond that is "countless."
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Well said!
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I specifically said she wasn't doing anything inappropriate, but it wasn't best practice or the safest option.
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So far I just don't see how any of your other options are safer. As I said, even two people in a car wouldn't be able to protect themselves and their reputations if the girl decided to make up a couple stories.

You do the best you can for the people in your community and hope that they'll do the same or you hide and never do anything for anyone because you fear that someone along the way will play you.
 
Yeah couldn't the girl make up a story that you brought along another person for more sick purposes?


To be clear, I feel like in your line of work your rules are the right way to go, exactly because of what you said about abusers finding the best way to be around kids every day so they can abuse them. I just think its a little extreme to say that's a rule everyone should to live
 
KnightTymeToy said:
So far I just don't see how any of your other options are safer. As I said, even two people in a car wouldn't be able to protect themselves and their reputations if the girl decided to make up a couple stories.

You do the best you can for the people in your community and hope that they'll do the same or you hide and never do anything for anyone because you fear that someone along the way will play you.
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Two against 1 is better than 1 against 1. Especially when all stories are taken separately and compared for discrepancies.
 
tintinisahottie said:
Yeah couldn't the girl make up a story that you brought along another person for more sick purposes?


To be clear, I feel like in your line of work your rules are the right way to go, exactly because of what you said about abusers finding the best way to be around kids every day so they can abuse them. I just think its a little extreme to say that's a rule everyone should to live
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If you agree with that premise, then shouldn't it apply to all organizations that work with kids like churches, schools, etc.?
 
I was throwing you a bone. You have pedo facial hair. I don't think you should be near kids
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I specifically said she wasn't doing anything inappropriate, but it wasn't best practice or the safest option.
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ok, so what about the fact that we also had a sleepover at my house at one point too? we ate pizza, baked cookies for a homeless ministry, watched a disney movie, and then went to sleep. i slept in my room, the other leader (yes, there was another adult) slept in the guest room, and the girls all slept on the couches and on air mattresses in the living room.

i clearly don't have my own children (much like the teacher example earlier). so was i in the wrong by inviting middle school girls to sleep at my house? once again it had the ok of the youth minister and all of their parents.

i'm honestly just wondering about these super strict standards that you have. clearly i think the line is drawn in an entirely different place than you do. i thought it was an awesome time for our girls to bond together (and clearly the youth minister agreed or he wouldn't have ok'ed it). but was the risk of one of them crying sexual abuse so great that we shouldn't have had bonding time?
 
DeacHoops said:
ok, so what about the fact that we also had a sleepover at my house at one point too? we put our underpants on, had a pillow fight, sprayed whipped cream all around, took pictures to commerate the moment... but was the risk of one of them crying sexual abuse so great that we shouldn't have had bonding time?
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fifiy :couch:

i kid i kid
 
DeacHoops said:
ok, so what about the fact that we also had a sleepover at my house at one point too? we ate pizza, baked cookies for a homeless ministry, watched a disney movie, and then went to sleep. i slept in my room, the other leader (yes, there was another adult) slept in the guest room, and the girls all slept on the couches and on air mattresses in the living room.

i clearly don't have my own children (much like the teacher example earlier). so was i in the wrong by inviting middle school girls to sleep at my house? once again it had the ok of the youth minister and all of their parents.

i'm honestly just wondering about these super strict standards that you have. clearly i think the line is drawn in an entirely different place than you do. i thought it was an awesome time for our girls to bond together (and clearly the youth minister agreed or he wouldn't have ok'ed it). but was the risk of one of them crying sexual abuse so great that we shouldn't have had bonding time?
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Another case of not the safest or best practice, but you had a second adult. I'm a resident camp guy, and I understand the value of retreats like that for kids. Best practice is to have more than one adult (ie two counselors per cabin), and not host at your house.

I guess my point is that we mistaking place trust in rules around gender when it comes to kids and what is appropriate. For example, if two male youth leaders hosted a similar scenario, it would widely be accepted as inappropriate, but why? Does that make sense?
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Another case of not the safest or best practice, but you had a second adult. I'm a resident camp guy, and I understand the value of retreats like that for kids. Best practice is to have more than one adult (ie two counselors per cabin), and not host at your house.

I guess my point is that we mistaking place trust in rules around gender when it comes to kids and what is appropriate. For example, if two male youth leaders hosted a similar scenario, it would widely be accepted as inappropriate, but why? Does that make sense?
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but our guy leaders do the same thing with their boys. there are always two leaders, and the genders never cross. but the guys host the boys at their own houses.
 
DeacHoops said:
but our guy leaders do the same thing with their boys. there are always two leaders, and the genders never cross. but the guys host the boys at their own houses.
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The fact that these events feature two adults backs up my point a little.

As far as car rides go, read the Sadusky GJ report, how many of those interactions started with inappropriate contact in the car?
 
i understand why you're cautious. i honestly do. i just think that you're completely paralyzing leaders with your standards (your situation is different, because like you said, your parents pay for their kids to be there. which means you have parents who actually CARE about their kids).
 
DeacHoops said:
i understand why you're cautious. i honestly do. i just think that you're completely paralyzing leaders with your standards (your situation is different, because like you said, your parents pay for their kids to be there. which means you have parents who actually CARE about their kids).
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You would think that, but it's not true.

Jerry Sandusky was getting awards for his leadership with kids within the last 5 years, real talk.
 
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