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The Daily Show Gives a Voice to the Voiceless

Wakeforest22890 said:
People are entitled to believe whatever they want, but the problem with Christianity is that it values faith over logic and fact. That's fine if people want to do that but let's all at least admit what it is. This is why I find it difficult to discuss the topic in general because there's a different underlying thought process behind religion and then things like science and observation.
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Wakeforest22890 said:
If we're being generous, even, three accounts are heavily reliant upon the fourth and the fourth in all likelihood didn't witness any events about which "he" (or more likely "they") were writing.

Given the general reliability of four separate accounts, which are taken literally as gospel, it seems pretty unlikely that what is recorded in the Bible is even 50% accurate. I would also posit that even if 99.9% of the Bible was in fact accurate, the .1% which was not was probably the portion dealing with any miracle which was alleged. Hell most of the miracles of the Bible were probably just a gross misunderstanding of the basic aspects of life. This was two thousand years before germ theory came about, there probably wasn't any wine to water miracle. I'm sure the Red Sea parted because there was a drought and someone was able to walk/swim across and the followers got caught in a strong current or storm (if there actually was something like this that even occurred at all).

I thought I read recently that there is no historical evidence at all that there were ever any Jews imprisoned in Egypt
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Maybe I'm missing some context here, but what exactly are you trying to get at? That religion is an arrational institution? That the Bible is not to be used as a history textbook? I mean, that's all true, but it's not exactly groundbreaking news. You describe the paucity of logic and fact as a "problem" to Christianity, as if the two belong in the same discussion. Religion being illogical isn't a problem at all; it's damned near the definition of it. I realize that there are some people who don't recognize that, but are they really on this thread (honest question, read rest of thread awhile ago)?
 
Shorty said:
That is not the consensus understanding. John's gospel, written by an eye witness, is not reliant upon Mark, like Matthew and Luke's gospel are.
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John's gospel was likely written around the turn of the first century. Most biblical scholars date it between 90-100 AD.
 
DeacinBama said:
Maybe I'm missing some context here, but what exactly are you trying to get at? That religion is an arrational institution? That the Bible is not to be used as a history textbook? I mean, that's all true, but it's not exactly groundbreaking news. You describe the paucity of logic and fact as a "problem" to Christianity, as if the two belong in the same discussion. Religion being illogical isn't a problem at all; it's damned near the definition of it. I realize that there are some people who don't recognize that, but are they really on this thread (honest question, read rest of thread awhile ago)?
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Yeah everything you said is a continuation of what I was saying. I wasn't necessarily addressing that discussion towards anyone who may or may not be on the thread, I was just stating that I don't think you can reconcile religion with any sort of logic at any level.
 
alright let me try to break it down for everybody real quick.

1) Christians are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe just as Muslims, Hindus, Gays, Straights, Atheists, etc etc are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe.

2) One's beliefs does not give them the right to judge someone else because of what they choose to believe or how they choose to live their life.

3) One's beliefs does not allow them to deny human rights to another group of individuals

4) While America has traditional been a "Christian" nation, that doesn't mean that we don't have separation of Church and State laws and freedom of religion laws. Simply being in the majority doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what is right and wrong.


Sorry, I'm a little drunk right now so this probably doesn't make as much sense as I think it does. But as a homosexual myself, and a former Christian (the fact that I am no longer a Christian has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I'm gay) this whole tread as been quite entertaining. I really just wish people (on both sides) would just let other people live their lives without trying to constantly tell them what they should or should not be doing. As a gay man, I don't care if you choose to go to Sunday school and Wednesday night worship. If thats what makes you happy than I'm happy for you. So please, if going out on dates with other men is what makes me happy, please just be happy that I'm happy.

I was never planning on doing this on here, but I got tired of just reading this thread without standing up for myself. I only know two people who have posted on this thread in real life and one of them already knows I'm gay so I really don't care that all of you others now know. For those that don't know me, I promise that I'm a good person, if you think I'm a sinner and going to hell, well thats fine with me I've accepted the fact that some people will never understand what it is like to be different and will choose to condemn me. You don't need to pray for me that one day I may change, I don't want to change. I'm only fairly recently "out" but I've never been happier in my entire life so if being a sinner in your eyes means I get to live a full and happy life than I'm ok with that, I love who I am and luckily have amazing people in my life who do as well.
 
America isn't a theocracy, has never been a theocracy, and was never meant to be a theocracy. If the Bible, rather than the Constitution, were America's governing document, women might not be able to run for public office and probably still wouldn't be allowed to vote. It's embarrassing that women weren't allowed to vote universally in this country until less than a century ago. That change didn't force religions to put women on equal footing with men in their own religions, and allowing gays to have all the legal benefits of marriage won't force religions to change their dogma and sacraments. Racism and bigotry weren't eradicated with civil rights legislation and free speech is still a protected right. I abhor everything about Westboro Baptist Church and the Koran burning Pastor, but the government can't, hasn't, and won't ever shut them down. Some people may resent that the Food Network or NBC (both private employers) fired Paula Deen and Hank Williams, Jr for controversial statements, but people's actions have consequences.
 
Agreed, surely the Bible and the concept of marriage were so important they made it into the Constitution right?
 
CaptainAwesome said:
alright let me try to break it down for everybody real quick.

1) Christians are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe just as Muslims, Hindus, Gays, Straights, Atheists, etc etc are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe.

2) One's beliefs does not give them the right to judge someone else because of what they choose to believe or how they choose to live their life.

3) One's beliefs does not allow them to deny human rights to another group of individuals

4) While America has traditional been a "Christian" nation, that doesn't mean that we don't have separation of Church and State laws and freedom of religion laws. Simply being in the majority doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what is right and wrong.


Sorry, I'm a little drunk right now so this probably doesn't make as much sense as I think it does. But as a homosexual myself, and a former Christian (the fact that I am no longer a Christian has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I'm gay) this whole tread as been quite entertaining. I really just wish people (on both sides) would just let other people live their lives without trying to constantly tell them what they should or should not be doing. As a gay man, I don't care if you choose to go to Sunday school and Wednesday night worship. If thats what makes you happy than I'm happy for you. So please, if going out on dates with other men is what makes me happy, please just be happy that I'm happy.

I was never planning on doing this on here, but I got tired of just reading this thread without standing up for myself. I only know two people who have posted on this thread in real life and one of them already knows I'm gay so I really don't care that all of you others now know. For those that don't know me, I promise that I'm a good person, if you think I'm a sinner and going to hell, well thats fine with me I've accepted the fact that some people will never understand what it is like to be different and will choose to condemn me. You don't need to pray for me that one day I may change, I don't want to change. I'm only fairly recently "out" but I've never been happier in my entire life so if being a sinner in your eyes means I get to live a full and happy life than I'm ok with that, I love who I am and luckily have amazing people in my life who do as well.
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:golfclap:
 
To be fair, the "average lifespan" back then was heavily skewed by very high infant mortality. It's feasible that some one who lived long enough to be a disciple could make it to his 70s and 80s.
 
Unlikely, but not impossible. Google John the Apostle and see what you get. He is believed by many to be the author of five books in the New Testament, including the Gospel According to John.

NASB states very definitively that John is the author. Who knows? But it's possible.
 
CaptainAwesome said:
alright let me try to break it down for everybody real quick.

1) Christians are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe just as Muslims, Hindus, Gays, Straights, Atheists, etc etc are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe.

2) One's beliefs does not give them the right to judge someone else because of what they choose to believe or how they choose to live their life.

3) One's beliefs does not allow them to deny human rights to another group of individuals

4) While America has traditional been a "Christian" nation, that doesn't mean that we don't have separation of Church and State laws and freedom of religion laws. Simply being in the majority doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what is right and wrong.


Sorry, I'm a little drunk right now so this probably doesn't make as much sense as I think it does. But as a homosexual myself, and a former Christian (the fact that I am no longer a Christian has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I'm gay) this whole tread as been quite entertaining. I really just wish people (on both sides) would just let other people live their lives without trying to constantly tell them what they should or should not be doing. As a gay man, I don't care if you choose to go to Sunday school and Wednesday night worship. If thats what makes you happy than I'm happy for you. So please, if going out on dates with other men is what makes me happy, please just be happy that I'm happy.

I was never planning on doing this on here, but I got tired of just reading this thread without standing up for myself. I only know two people who have posted on this thread in real life and one of them already knows I'm gay so I really don't care that all of you others now know. For those that don't know me, I promise that I'm a good person, if you think I'm a sinner and going to hell, well thats fine with me I've accepted the fact that some people will never understand what it is like to be different and will choose to condemn me. You don't need to pray for me that one day I may change, I don't want to change. I'm only fairly recently "out" but I've never been happier in my entire life so if being a sinner in your eyes means I get to live a full and happy life than I'm ok with that, I love who I am and luckily have amazing people in my life who do as well.
Click to expand...

:golfclap:
 
CaptainAwesome said:
alright let me try to break it down for everybody real quick.

1) Christians are entitled to believe whatever they want to believe just as Muslims, Hindus, Gays, Straights, Atheists, etc etc are allowed to believe whatever they want to believe.

2) One's beliefs does not give them the right to judge someone else because of what they choose to believe or how they choose to live their life.

3) One's beliefs does not allow them to deny human rights to another group of individuals

4) While America has traditional been a "Christian" nation, that doesn't mean that we don't have separation of Church and State laws and freedom of religion laws. Simply being in the majority doesn't give anyone the right to dictate what is right and wrong.


Sorry, I'm a little drunk right now so this probably doesn't make as much sense as I think it does. But as a homosexual myself, and a former Christian (the fact that I am no longer a Christian has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I'm gay) this whole tread as been quite entertaining. I really just wish people (on both sides) would just let other people live their lives without trying to constantly tell them what they should or should not be doing. As a gay man, I don't care if you choose to go to Sunday school and Wednesday night worship. If thats what makes you happy than I'm happy for you. So please, if going out on dates with other men is what makes me happy, please just be happy that I'm happy.

I was never planning on doing this on here, but I got tired of just reading this thread without standing up for myself. I only know two people who have posted on this thread in real life and one of them already knows I'm gay so I really don't care that all of you others now know. For those that don't know me, I promise that I'm a good person, if you think I'm a sinner and going to hell, well thats fine with me I've accepted the fact that some people will never understand what it is like to be different and will choose to condemn me. You don't need to pray for me that one day I may change, I don't want to change. I'm only fairly recently "out" but I've never been happier in my entire life so if being a sinner in your eyes means I get to live a full and happy life than I'm ok with that, I love who I am and luckily have amazing people in my life who do as well.
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:bowdown:
 
Wrangor afraid to admit that if/when his kid(s) turn out gay he will consider them flawed, faulty people.
 
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