The guy who leaked controversial NSA programs is not who you would expect...

[RacerDeac]

Skins, most of the Republican Party would call themselves Libertarians. The actual party needs to take control of the name and message. The number of anti-choice, pro-intervention types who only like the "keep your hands off my wallet" part of libertarianism damage it's effectiveness.

Beliefs are always on a spectrum. The belief spectrum of the Dem or Republican party is far wider than the spectrum in the Libertarian party IMO...at least with regard to government's role. The personal belief spectrum within the Libertarian party are all over the place. I'll take the fiscal conservative types...it's not hard to convert them to full-fledged libertarians, especially those from the younger generations.

 

[Ball State Deac]

Gary Johnson got 1.2 million votes in 2102. That's 1% of the total. If all of Johnson's votes were concentrated in a single state, the largest state Johnson could have carried is Tennessee, which has 11 votes electoral votes. Might have been able to maximize electoral votes by carrying multiple smaller states, but you're still looking at low double-digit electoral votes. I'd love to see the GOP/Dem duopoly broken, but it will take multiple smaller parties to fragment the electoral vote enough before someone not from one of the current major partys is elected President.

I don't think Skins is suggesting that a Libertarian will win the White House in 2016.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

The Presidential race brings good publicity, but the Libertarian Party needs to focus on some House elections and get some representatives in Congress to get their voice heard.

 

[RJKarl]

The problem with Americans doing a third party is they do it wrong. To be viable it must have some roots and people elected locally before going for the gold ring.

 

[FuckmouthedRube]

I don't think Skins is suggesting that a Libertarian will win the White House in 2016.

I didn't think he was suggesting that either. Just pointing out that it's a long hard road to 270 and it will take more than a single third party to break up the duopoly. Traditional GOP leaders understand that. The Tea Party, not so much.

 

[RJKarl]

To me what's scarier than what he showed us (frankly I expected it was going on) is that over 1,400,000 has "secret" or above security clearances. That's frightening.

I can't imagine that many spies and enemies don't have this access. Also it opens up access to people who want to sell information or are easily compromised.

 

[smallbigtall]

I agree with SND that the Libertarians need to get into Congress to get our voices heard, but I agree with RJ that in order to get into Congress our voices need to be heard first. The Libertarians need to gain just a little more ground from the grassroots to obtain the 5% of the popular vote necessary to jumpstart everything else, from federal funding to, dare I say it, a place in the presidential debates.

 

[Ball State Deac]

I didn't think he was suggesting that either. Just pointing out that it's a long hard road to 270 and it will take more than a single third party to break up the duopoly. Traditional GOP leaders understand that. The Tea Party, not so much.

Agreed.

They need to knock off a house district or two.

 

[RJKarl]

It seems pretty convenient that he leaked this data while the Chinese PM was meeting with Obama and the POTUS was bringing up Chinese hacking.

The leaker could have picked anywhere in the world to go to hide but he chose China.

 

[PhDeac]

Agreed.

They need to knock off a house district or two.

That's a good strategy. Find an establishment Pub and weak Dem and split the middle.

 

[ONW]

Even Peter King thinks he is a traitor, and he didn't wind up in Hong Kong randomly.

 

[Lectro]

To me what's scarier than what he showed us (frankly I expected it was going on) is that over 1,400,000 has "secret" or above security clearances. That's frightening.

I can't imagine that many spies and enemies don't have this access. Also it opens up access to people who want to sell information or are easily compromised.

I assume that being a California liberal you'd endorse Gore Vidal's 90's assessment of our population as "a vast and growing band of sneaky types." His essays shortly after the Patriot Act are models for a future democracy...

 

[Lectro]

To me what's scarier than what he showed us (frankly I expected it was going on) is that over 1,400,000 has "secret" or above security clearances. That's frightening.

I can't imagine that many spies and enemies don't have this access. Also it opens up access to people who want to sell information or are easily compromised.

If one million and four hundred thousand of our citizens know the deal...what the fuck does it matter if they cue the other 300 mil. of us!? Big fucking deal, Peter King...


Are we expected to believe that all these folks have never talked at the bar, pillow-chatted, and the like?

Sure.

 

[RJKarl]

It doesn't mean all 1.4M people know everything about everything. It means they have access to specific areas of "secrets".

We have no idea how many people have access to any one arena.

But 1.4M having that designation is outrageous.

 

[SkinsNDeacs]

Skins, most of the Republican Party would call themselves Libertarians. The actual party needs to take control of the name and message. The number of anti-choice, pro-intervention types who only like the "keep your hands off my wallet" part of libertarianism damage it's effectiveness.

You are crazy if you think that "most of the Republican Party would call themselves Libertarians". Hell...I would go out on a limb and say that most of the Republican Party doesn't even know what a Libertarian is. No doubt, there are a lot of Republicans that like to pick and chose parts of libertarianism and call themselves Libertarian but it is FAR from a majority. This type of issue is exhibit A. For the most party, Republicans gladly hand over civil liberties in favor of security. Hell, ACLU is a dirty word (acronym) that ranks right up there with socialist with most of your mainstream Republicans. You would have just a hard time convincing mainstream true believer Pubs that gay marriage is not an issue of the state as you would a true believer Dem that the federal government needs to make serious entitlement cuts.

 

[SkinsNDeacs]

The Presidential race brings good publicity, but the Libertarian Party needs to focus on some House elections and get some representatives in Congress to get their voice heard.

They (we) have tried that strategy with marginal success. The sad truth is without a strong national voice you can't obtain the resources that are needed to focus on more local elections. The system is total rigged.

 

[SkinsNDeacs]

I didn't think he was suggesting that either. Just pointing out that it's a long hard road to 270 and it will take more than a single third party to break up the duopoly. Traditional GOP leaders understand that. The Tea Party, not so much.

270 is lifetimes away at least. However, you don't necessarily have to get to 270 to break up the duopoly. As someone said, once you get to 5% the whole ball game changes and the voice of the 5% gets a lot more attention. I am (obviously) a true believer and I am confident the more people that hear about Libertarianism the more followers it will attract especially among young people. Make no mistake, the Dempublicans know this and will do EVERYTHING to keep that from happening.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

They (we) have tried that strategy with marginal success. The sad truth is without a strong national voice you can't obtain the resources that are needed to focus on more local elections. The system is total rigged.

Eh, I call bullshit on that. It'll take the right candidate in the right district, but the way to get that strong national voice is to start small and work your way up.

 

[Lectro]

They (we) have tried that strategy with marginal success. The sad truth is without a strong national voice you can't obtain the resources that are needed to focus on more local elections. The system is total rigged.

It's a one party system with two wings. John Anderson let it out of the bag when, during the 76 election, he was asked "why are you running?" He drily responded "because I believe in a two party system."

No money, resources means no big media. If the news/tabloids of Fox, CNN, MSNBC pay minimal attention then there is no chance. Old media has not succumbed to new computer media in the political realm.

 

[PhDeac]

You are crazy if you think that "most of the Republican Party would call themselves Libertarians". Hell...I would go out on a limb and say that most of the Republican Party doesn't even know what a Libertarian is. No doubt, there are a lot of Republicans that like to pick and chose parts of libertarianism and call themselves Libertarian but it is FAR from a majority. This type of issue is exhibit A. For the most party, Republicans gladly hand over civil liberties in favor of security. Hell, ACLU is a dirty word (acronym) that ranks right up there with socialist with most of your mainstream Republicans. You would have just a hard time convincing mainstream true believer Pubs that gay marriage is not an issue of the state as you would a true believer Dem that the federal government needs to make serious entitlement cuts.

These are the ones I'm talking about and I believe it is a majority.