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The New Socialists

MHBDemon said:
Rereading your post, i don’t think you were saying technocrats will solve everything, but the sentiment seemed to be calling for highly skilled educated people rather than working class people.
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No, you wanted him to him to have said that so that you could rant.
 
gee, who else thinks that education and experience are detriments when it comes to real world application? hm, another tally mark for the old horseshoe i guess.
 
MHBDemon said:
Hi I’m ITC and I believe that only highly educated white men with executive experience should lead us.
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You see. It is ridiculous shit like this that makes a real discussion impossible.

The Captain and I may not like one another but I would not smear him with that type of insinuation. Call him a name if you must but don’t make the guy out to be some kind of supremacist.
 
MHBDemon said:
Rereading your post, i don’t think you were saying technocrats will solve everything, but the sentiment seemed to be calling for highly skilled educated people rather than working class people.
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I'm saying that skills in governance and policy are required to articulate a leftist vision that has any chance of actually occurring -- it's my position that that is necessary to achieve a socialism in a democratic (read: non-bloody) way

I'm also pushing back against the idea that there is anything wrong with being highly educated, though I also push back on the idea that formal education systems are the only road to that end

there seems to be a sentiment among some, bordering on fetishism, that the working class is made up of a pure stock of people that will self-organize in harmony once 1% has been knocked off the top

there also needs to be a program and a process for dealing with difficult things
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I'm saying that skills in governance and policy are required to articulate a leftist vision that has any chance of actually occurring -- it's my position that that is necessary to achieve a socialism in a democratic (read: non-bloody) way

I'm also pushing back against the idea that there is anything wrong with being highly educated, though I also push back on the idea that formal education systems are the only road to that end

there seems to be a sentiment among some, bordering on fetishism, that the working class is made up of a pure stock of people that will self-organize in harmony once 1% has been knocked off the top

there also needs to be a program and a process for dealing with difficult things
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Surely you jest. If MDMH is anything it's politely inclusive and non-combative.
 
This is going to be a problem for the Left. It already is. The socialist wing has nearly the same contempt for status quo Dems as they do for Pubs.

Soon enough they will be hurling epithets..calling one another “fascists”, “supremacists”,”Nazis”,”Racists” and the like.

It will be a bitter pill for many of the old guard when their name-calling comes back around to bite them in the ass
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
I'm saying that skills in governance and policy are required to articulate a leftist vision that has any chance of actually occurring -- it's my position that that is necessary to achieve a socialism in a democratic (read: non-bloody) way

I'm also pushing back against the idea that there is anything wrong with being highly educated, though I also push back on the idea that formal education systems are the only road to that end

there seems to be a sentiment among some, bordering on fetishism, that the working class is made up of a pure stock of people that will self-organize in harmony once 1% has been knocked off the top

there also needs to be a program and a process for dealing with difficult things
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This is a good post.
 
Working class whites in PA, MI, WI were major factors in electing Trump.
 
MHBDemon said:
Im not necessarily disagreeing with you, but isn’t this too close to rule by technocracy? Can’t we empower working class people to be democratic and provide solutions that aren’t funded by a fucking think tank?

That isn’t to say we don’t need accountants or lawyers or other skills, but smart educated people have been fucking everything up. I don’t want to be governed by a bunch of Harvard assholes.
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No, I don't believe we can empower working class people to provide "solutions," at least not in many cases. I think we should absolutely look to working class people to understand what the problems are, and which problems are the most pressing, which is something we've done a poor job of generally. But to expect working class people to provide the solutions to what can be incredibly complex issues requiring specific expertise strikes me as unrealistic. Policy is hard. If anything, I'd argue that we aren't listening to "smart, educated people" enough (or at all, in the current administration).

The tiltdeac blueprint: None of it can happen until we kick out the cartoon villains that are in office and elect smart people with a shared set of values, so that's step one. And the values are much more important than intelligence, as long as they are willing to listen to experts. We need to worry less about the labels we put on each other or our programs, and worry more about the end result (e.g. no kid should go hungry, period, end). We need to ask different experts to provide specific, actionable policy solutions (not slogans) to those problems. We need to test those solutions as best we can, whether it be modeling, pilot programs, randomized trials, etc. We need to be realistic and transparent about the costs and benefits of those solutions. We need to weigh that evidence and being willing to reject our priors about the best way to tackle that problem if the best available evidence supports another approach. And when we implement our best solution, we need to measure its effectiveness and be willing to admit we fucked up if it's not working. And it's sad to me that the above seems completely unrealistic :(
 
If we put ads on this board so that it made money would it stop MHBD from posting?
 
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