The New Socialists

[RJKarl]

The bottom line is that both sides are very comfortable using broad generalizations to characterize those who disagree with their political positions. For Republicans, the over-used term is "socialist". For Democrats, the over-used term is "racist". The fact is that most Democrats are not socialists and most Republicans are not racists, but as the rhetoric is constantly being ratcheted higher the temptation to make such inaccurate generalizations is hard to resist.

Each side really believes that its generalizations are factual and that the other side's generalizations are only imagined. This is why there is so little meaningful political discourse on these boards and/or across the nation in general.

Any one of these things Trump has done would qualify him as a racist:

Biggest fine (at the time) in NY history for racial discrimination in housing - He had his people put "c" for colored on applications for apartments by black people
Biggest fine (at the time) in NJ for racial and gender discrimination in hiring
Even after the Central Park Five were found completely innocent, Trump said they should be kept in jail for life as they "probably committed other crimes"
Birtherism
His first speech told about Mexican rapists, murderers and drug dealers
Muslim ban
An American (Indiana) born, very conservative judge couldn't treat him fairly because his ancestors came from Mexico
Stephen Miller is his top policy person in WH -he is a white supremacist
Attacks on the Khans
Sebastian Gorka wore a Hungarian Nazi tunic to the WH Inaugural Ball that had the highest medal from the Hungarian Nazi Party pinned to it. To this day, Gorka is still a Trump surrogate.
"Very fine people on both sides" in Charlottesville- Sorry, if you are in group screaming "White Power", "Sieg Heil", "Jews will not replace us"- you are a racist and not a fine person
"Go back to where you came from" to US Congresswomen of color
The separation of families at the southern border/

There are pages and pages more of Trump's public racism. To deny, he's a racist is to deny gravity.

If you support him, you are de facto supporting racism. It's totally dishonest to say, "I don't support his racism, but I support some of his policies".

At the core of his being is racism. If you support in any way, shape or form, you are supporting racism. There is no side stepping this.

 

[PINEAPPLE]

RJ, you are a perfect example of the point I was making. You are totally convinced in your mind that every opinion you have is 100% right and that anyone who disagrees with you has to be wrong. In such a situation, any attempt at meaningful discourse with you is an exercise in futility.

 

[RJKarl]

RJ, you are a perfect example of the point I was making. You are totally convinced in your mind that every opinion you have is 100% right and that anyone who disagrees with you has to be wrong. In such a situation, any attempt at meaningful discourse with you is an exercise in futility.

How many acts of racism would Trump have to do for you to say he's a racist?

Pineapple, you are showing yourself to be the perfect example of having to agree with you.

All I said was Trump is a racist and gave over a dozen of his own specific acts (which consistently occurred over a 40+ year period) as evidence. Rather than trying to dispute historic facts you make this about me.

Unlike your first post, I didn't say "all Republicans" are racists and never would say such a thing.

Here's a question for you, would it be fair to say if one supports David Duke, that person is supporting racism?

Plenty of people disagree with me. Some are right. Some are wrong. It's you who have made generalizations about others (whom you don't know).

 

[WFcatamount22]

How many acts of racism would Trump have to do for you to say he's a racist?

Pineapple, you are showing yourself to be the perfect example of having to agree with you.

All I said was Trump is a racist and gave over a dozen of his own specific acts (which consistently occurred over a 40+ year period) as evidence. Rather than trying to dispute historic facts you make this about me.

Unlike your first post, I didn't say "all Republicans" are racists and never would say such a thing.

Here's a question for you, would it be fair to say if one supports David Duke, that person is supporting racism?

Plenty of people disagree with me. Some are right. Some are wrong. It's you who have made generalizations about others (whom you don't know).

I don’t think Trump is a racist.

I think he is a sociopathic opportunist. Someone that is ready to pray on others senses of racial biases and beliefs for his own opportunistic gains, someone that is ready to divide the nation over deep seeded hatred and I’ll will for financial and personal gains.

For the record I think it’s worse.

 

[RJKarl]

HUH???

He paid the biggest fines in history of two states (at the time they were levied) for his racist acts. Banning all Muslims for being Muslims is the definition of racism. Saying an American citizen of Mexican ancestry can't judge him because of his lineage is as racist as it gets.

The things I listed are a small part of his history of racism. How many overt, public acts does someone have to do for you to consider him racist? Over how many decades does one have to commit racist acts and make racist statements does one have to do to be a racist in your mind?

 

[WFFaithful]

I don’t think Trump is a racist.

I think he is a sociopathic opportunist. Someone that is ready to pray on others senses of racial biases and beliefs for his own opportunistic gains, someone that is ready to divide the nation over deep seeded hatred and I’ll will for financial and personal gains.

For the record I think it’s worse.

Doesn't that describe all racists?

 

[ConnorEl]

*prey



Racist is as racist does. Fits Trump.


And, unfortunately, over time Republicans. Generally.


Of course not all Republicans are racist. It should be acknowledged, however, that publicly or even consciously self-identifying as such isn’t a good definition.

 

[06deacon]

Pineapple, how would you define “racist” in your sentence “most Republicans are not racists”? Not saying you’re wrong necessarily but I hope your definition of “racist” is more nuanced than just “Klan member”

 

[PINEAPPLE]

Pineapple, how would you define “racist” in your sentence “most Republicans are not racists”? Not saying you’re wrong necessarily but I hope your definition of “racist” is more nuanced than just “Klan member”

That's a difficult question because the term itself is so subjective. I doubt that there are many people who do not harbor at least some idea about race that someone somewhere could describe as "racist". That in no way proves that this person is a racist, in my opinion. Unfortunately, the term has been used so cavalierly in political debate for so long now that it is in danger of losing any definable meaning. That is true of all these hot-button words like "socialist", "far left", "racist", "far-right", etc.....which was my point in an earlier post.

But to answer your question, personally I think one definition for the term "racist" could be someone who believes that one race is inherently inferior to another, and, more importantly, supports legislation that prevents that race from equal protection under the law and its right to "the pursuit of life, liberty & happiness", as is stated in our Declaration of Independence. And that, I hasten to add, is an opinion that is also open to widespread subjectivity.

 

[RJKarl]

Pineapple, here are couple of questions:

1. How many racist statements or actions does one have to do in public for you to consider them a racist?
2. Why are you allowed to determine how a person thinks without asking them? Why are your assumptions considered about such things inherently correct when you could learn that you are wrong if you took the time to find out?

 

[Biff Tannen]

Today's most important task: Determine if new poster is racist.

 

[ConnorEl]

Seems almost certainly a Pub/conservative.

 

[PINEAPPLE]

Pineapple, here are couple of questions:

1. How many racist statements or actions does one have to do in public for you to consider them a racist?
2. Why are you allowed to determine how a person thinks without asking them? Why are your assumptions considered about such things inherently correct when you could learn that you are wrong if you took the time to find out?

RJ, I have already described the reasons why attempting any political debate with you is futile. To begin with, you are not even interested in or looking for an honest debate. Your mind is already made up and nothing will satisfy you other than confirmation of your position by the other person. You take carefully selected subjective statements that, in your mind, affirm your already established position....and use them as irrefutable evidence that, as always, your position is the correct one on any given subject.

Others can play that game with you if they wish. I'm not interested.

 

[RJKarl]

RJ, I have already described the reasons why attempting any political debate with you is futile. To begin with, you are not even interested in or looking for an honest debate. Your mind is already made up and nothing will satisfy you other than confirmation of your position by the other person. You take carefully selected subjective statements that, in your mind, affirm your already established position....and use them as irrefutable evidence that, as always, your position is the correct one on any given subject.

Others can play that game with you if they wish. I'm not interested.

You are doing what you I think I would do.

I am always looking for an honest debate. You started from the the position that some consider "all" Republicans racist even after I specifically said that's definitely not the case.

As to the highlighted part, I would rather have no one be racist, but when there is 40+ years of words and deeds, what is one supposed to think? Anyone can make a mistake and say something that can be considered racist, but not be. However, you still won't answer how many times can someone say and do racist things before you say they are racist.

One can possibly extrapolate that you are a Trump supporter who refuses to see all the evidence of his racism or is looking for an excuse to justify supporting a racist.


I understand it's much easier to hide than to answer, but it's legitimate to ask "how many words and actions by a person are needed to prove who that person is?"

Your mind appears to be closed when challenged. I would hope you could show it to be otherwise.

Since you are new here, let me give you a little history. At one time, I was considered to be a radical lefty here. Now, there's a group that thinks I am all but a conservative in spite of my positions being consistent over the years. Some have posted that I must be a Republican because I believe in upping the age for Social Security or rebuilding new Enterprise Zones like those that were started by RW hero Jack Kemp. Others think, I am radically left for opposing both Iraq Wars, supporting equal rights for all Americans (including women and LGBTQ) and that all income should be taxed at the same rate.

But you know all about me in one post. Either you're psychic, lazy or someone who is using a new name. Whichever it is, you are refusing to respond and hiding from any debate that doesn't suit you.

 

[bym051d]

RJ, I have already described the reasons why attempting any political debate with you is futile. To begin with, you are not even interested in or looking for an honest debate.

Few people here are interested in an honest debate. That's why I'm rarely interested in doing more than sarcastic sniping.

 

[PINEAPPLE]

Few people here are interested in an honest debate. That's why I'm rarely interested in doing more than sarcastic sniping.

Good point. Anyone who posts here thinking that he or she can change someone else's opinion is going to be very disappointed. Best to use these boards for entertainment only, rather than making any attempt at serious debate.

 

[PhDeac]

That's a difficult question because the term itself is so subjective. I doubt that there are many people who do not harbor at least some idea about race that someone somewhere could describe as "racist". That in no way proves that this person is a racist, in my opinion. Unfortunately, the term has been used so cavalierly in political debate for so long now that it is in danger of losing any definable meaning. That is true of all these hot-button words like "socialist", "far left", "racist", "far-right", etc.....which was my point in an earlier post.

But to answer your question, personally I think one definition for the term "racist" could be someone who believes that one race is inherently inferior to another, and, more importantly, supports legislation that prevents that race from equal protection under the law and its right to "the pursuit of life, liberty & happiness", as is stated in our Declaration of Independence. And that, I hasten to add, is an opinion that is also open to widespread subjectivity.

That describes the Republican Party.

 

[RJKarl]

Good point. Anyone who posts here thinking that he or she can change someone else's opinion is going to be very disappointed. Best to use these boards for entertainment only, rather than making any attempt at serious debate.

And you are unwilling to engage anyone. You might be surprised. In a classic exhibition of irony, you complain about others not willing to discuss or debate something by not being willing to discuss or debate anything.

On another thread you ask many questions and expect others to answer. Yet here, you refuse to answer any questions.

 

[DG3]

RJ, I have already described the reasons why attempting any political debate with you is futile. To begin with, you are not even interested in or looking for an honest debate. Your mind is already made up and nothing will satisfy you other than confirmation of your position by the other person. You take carefully selected subjective statements that, in your mind, affirm your already established position....and use them as irrefutable evidence that, as always, your position is the correct one on any given subject.

Others can play that game with you if they wish. I'm not interested.

If you've come to the Tunnels looking for a debate, I have very bad news for you. Now, if you've come to have internet strangers insult your opinions and morality, welcome. You'll love it here.

 

[PINEAPPLE]

And you are unwilling to engage anyone. You might be surprised. In a classic exhibition of irony, you complain about others not willing to discuss or debate something by not being willing to discuss or debate anything.

On another thread you ask many questions and expect others to answer. Yet here, you refuse to answer any questions.

There is a difference, RJ. I was asking for other opinions about what the final Democratic ticket would look like next year. I was not making any attempt at a value judgment on their possible replies. You, on the other hand, are only asking for someone to affirm your "irrefutable" position. You seem to be so insecure that you constantly need affirmation to sooth your ego.