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the official new supreme court thread - Very political

I think the big thing you touched on was that spending doesn’t really change taxes and hasnt for decades. Like running debt as the world currency is not a problem, in fact it would be almost malpractice not to. It’s just another talking point that got taken up by conservatives to cut taxes, then never actually cut any spending except for token “liberal” things. There wasn’t much clamoring about but my taxes when billions of dollars of covid money was just written off into the world of debt.
 
ipitytheblue said:
Re: The hospital example, this would be like saying that I'm willing to see any physician at a trusted top hospital. Which I am.
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TITCR to thereff's doctor gotcha.

It's also a classic owg question to ask. People of color, especially black women, should absolutely be considering the race of their physicians given the data we have on them being taken less seriously and realizing generally worse medical outcomes when treated by white physicians. Obviously this isn't to say all white doctors don't provide excellent care to people of color, but the data are what they are.
 
Frosty said:
TITCR to thereff's doctor gotcha.

It's also a classic owg question to ask. People of color, especially black women, should absolutely be considering the race of their physicians given the data we have on them being taken less seriously and realizing generally worse medical outcomes when treated by white physicians. Obviously this isn't to say all white doctors don't provide excellent care to people of color, but the data are what they are.
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Great point. I was speaking from my own perspective, i.e. as a white male who expects to receive quality treatment from anyone I see.
 
TheReff said:
Yes, because at the time businesses lost business. The difference in college loans is that people are signing paperwork to pay it back. Tell me what is the difference in college loans, car loans, house loans or business loans? People signed to pay them back
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This deserves an answer. There is a huge difference.

I may be mistaken, but college loans cannot be discharged (forgiven) by bankruptcy. All other loans can be discharged by bankruptcy. The only other debt that must remain on a credit report and must be addressed is unpaid child support.

I suspect that the lenders understood the predatory nature of their lending and insisted on this unique requirement for their college loans. Recent college graduates with enormous debt and entry level income are prime applicants for a declaration of bankruptcy that would discharge (forgive) their loans. Lenders wanted to prevent that possibility.

Imagine if the adults that struggle financially because of these loans were given the option to discharge them by declaring bankruptcy. I suspect many would persue this course of action. At a minimum, this provision should be eliminated from educational loans.

edit. The past few pages have certainly improved the quality of discussion in the tunnels. Good to see.
 
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The argument given towards bankruptcy of student debt is that there is no collateral to be collected for the lender to be made whole, but this is rebutted by people with medical debt filing chapter 7. Medical debt collectors can’t seize your cancer remission or re-break your bones.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The argument given towards bankruptcy of student debt is that there is no collateral to be collected for the lender to be made whole, but this is rebutted by people with medical debt filing chapter 7. Medical debt collectors can’t seize your cancer remission or re-break your bones...
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...yet.

"Nice remission you got there. Be a shame if your cancer came back."
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The argument given towards bankruptcy of student debt is that there is no collateral to be collected for the lender to be made whole, but this is rebutted by people with medical debt filing chapter 7. Medical debt collectors can’t seize your cancer remission or re-break your bones.
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…yet
 
The thing about these dumb debates is that they shouldn’t even be necessary. We shouldn’t have massive student debt or medical debt to begin with. Why do we have to maintain this dumb fucking casino style society where we risk our lives just to pursue educations or receive healthcare treatment?
 
For instance, why does a society that desperately needs doctors allow for an education in medicine to be so cost prohibitive and onerous that it discourages large percentage of academically qualified students from attending medical school? It makes no goddamn sense. Why are our billion dollar “non-profit” corporate hospital groups so understaffed and abusive to nurses that it creates a massive national shortage? It’s insane.
 
TheReff said:
Don’t know the correlation to PPP and people wanting forgiveness in loans that they signed paperwork to pay back? So in your mind then all loans for cars, houses, businesses should be forgiven?
I just don’t see why college loans are any different than a loan for any hard working person. Nor do I see the fairness in giving loan forgiveness when millions of other Americans repaid their own college loans or their kids college loans (like I did). That’s just b.s.
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You do realize that people filled out paperwork to get PPP loans, right? It wasn't just money raining from the sky.
 
of course you don't think it's fair for other borrowers of government backed loans to get forgiveness. why should anyone you don't identify with get the same benefits you've gotten?

this is exactly the shit that is wrong with our country. generations of people exploiting systemic advantages, but naturally blind to seeing it as privilege -- and then melting like a snowflake when someone else in our country gets anything at all. and using said advantages to actually prevent it for other people! great job.

i paid every dime of my student loans off and it would have helped me tremendously to have had any help with that at all. would be a great thing for millions in our country to improve their QOL.
 
rawarr said:
of course you don't think it's fair for other borrowers of government backed loans to get forgiveness. why should anyone you don't identify with get the same benefits you've gotten?

this is exactly the shit that is wrong with our country. generations of people exploiting systemic advantages, but naturally blind to seeing it as privilege -- and then melting like a snowflake when someone else in our country gets anything at all. and using said advantages to actually prevent it for other people! great job.

i paid every dime of my student loans off and it would have helped me tremendously to have had any help with that at all. would be a great thing for millions in our country to improve their QOL.
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This.

Systemic.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Very important duty as a citizen to impress upon your descendents the same burdens and hardships that fell upon you, bonus if it gets worse.
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Not their descendants.

This is the hallmark of modern conservatism. The New Deal was very popular except with fringe conservatives until Black people fought for the same entitlements. Then white people gradually turned on it leading to the Reagan Revolution and rise of movement conservatism into the mainstream. Now the economic sucks for all but a few people but they don’t want government to help because the “others” would get help too.
 
deactherunner said:
It turns out he is well aware of this.
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Very well aware. They were there as forgivable loans to help those in business help to keep their employees during the downturn caused by Covid. I had around a $90,000 per year payroll and did not lay off a single person nor cut back hours even though sales were way down. That is what PPP was there for. Those not self employed would not know that nor understand it. Nor understand matching the 7.65% FICA withheld out if your own pocket, which I did for the entire 39 years I was self-employed. Put that on the $90k payroll and that is $6885 out of the employers profits every year also. Just to help make SS work)
 
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