The scam that is the debt ceiling as an issue

[PhDeac]

And you believe that democrats actually HAVE a plan to address the issue? Other than taxing the shit out of the wealthy?

Either way, your suggestion is laughable. Do you really think it's possible to shut one party out of the discussion? Ridiculous. Neither will allow that to happen.

Democrats have to give on spending, republicans have to give on tax cuts. My prediction is that neither will do anything substantive until it's too late. Both parties are more interested in getting elected than in doing the right thing.

I don't know if they have a plan or not. But I do know that every plan I've seen coming from some wing of the Democratic party whether it be the Progressive plan or Obama's plan includes both tax increases and spending cuts. Now you can argue about which tax increases and which spending cuts, but it's a start and move in the right direction.

So if you REALLY think we have to raise taxes AND cut spending, why would you hitch your wagon to elephants who definitely aren't going to do one of those things?

I think Obama should go out and say "Look, everybody knows we need to cut spending and raise taxes. The Republicans have made it clear that they're not going to raise taxes, particularly on the ones who can afford it the most. For this reason, I'm shutting them out of the discussion until they can come up with a reasonable proposal that does both."

Bake, Bush's free cash giveaway was a complete joke, but I'll admit it did help pay for my wedding so I thank him for that.

 

[Shorty]

I don't know if they have a plan or not. But I do know that every plan I've seen coming from some wing of the Democratic party whether it be the Progressive plan or Obama's plan includes both tax increases and spending cuts. Now you can argue about which tax increases and which spending cuts, but it's a start and move in the right direction.

So if you REALLY think we have to raise taxes AND cut spending, why would you hitch your wagon to elephants who definitely aren't going to do one of those things?

I think Obama should go out and say "Look, everybody knows we need to cut spending and raise taxes. The Republicans have made it clear that they're not going to raise taxes, particularly on the ones who can afford it the most. For this reason, I'm shutting them out of the discussion until they can come up with a reasonable proposal that does both."Bake, Bush's free cash giveaway was a complete joke, but I'll admit it did help pay for my wedding so I thank him for that.

I have no idea why you keep insisting that I've "hitched my wagon to elephants". But then again, there's no way I'm hitching it to jackasses either.

I'm sure republican leadership is going to be very unhappy to learn that you've shut them out of the discussion.

 

[RJKarl]

I have no idea why you keep insisting that I've "hitched my wagon to elephants".

Well you seem to carry peanuts in your pockets a lot.

 

[Shorty]

I have no idea why you keep insisting that I've "hitched my wagon to elephants".

Well you seem to carry peanuts in your pockets a lot.

I am in favor of across the board tax increases and across the board spending cuts - on defense, entitlements, everything.

If you deem that to be a republican position, then so be it.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

I think there would be a lot more support for raising taxes if anyone thought there would actually be corresponding meaningful spending cuts to solve the problem. But instead, the past few years have brought the unfunded Stimulus Bill and the unfunded Obamacare. Simply raising taxes to pay for those idiotic programs is not going to gain any support amongst those whose taxes are going to be raised. I think if Obama came back and said "Okay, I will get rid of Obamacare in exchange for a 10% increase in tax rates across the board and 10% spending cuts across the board", then people would be generally okay with it. But nobody with legit skin in the game wants to talk about tax increases if that money is just going to pay for an enormous program that shouldn't have been enacted to begin with, and that is where they see the money going.

 

[ONW]

I think there would be a lot more support for raising taxes if anyone thought there would actually be corresponding meaningful spending cuts to solve the problem. But instead, the past few years have brought the unfunded Stimulus Bill and the unfunded Obamacare. Simply raising taxes to pay for those idiotic programs is not going to gain any support amongst those whose taxes are going to be raised. I think if Obama came back and said "Okay, I will get rid of Obamacare in exchange for a 10% increase in tax rates across the board and 10% spending cuts across the board", then people would be generally okay with it. But nobody with legit skin in the game wants to talk about tax increases if that money is just going to pay for an enormous program that shouldn't have been enacted to begin with, and that is where they see the money going.

And an unfunded prescription drug plan, and a couple of wars, and a massive tax cut...

 

[RJKarl]

I am in favor of across the board tax increases and across the board spending cuts - on defense, entitlements, everything.

If you deem that to be a republican position, then so be it.

What part of "peanuts in your pockets" do you take seriously when it followed a statement about elephants?

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

As Stephen Colbert so accurately commented, the debt veiling was raised without any problem in 2002-3-4-6-7 and twice in 2008.

What a scam.

No matter what you think about the concept of a debt ceiling, the fact that it has been done before doesn't make it a good idea now.

 

[RJKarl]

No matter what you think about the concept of a debt ceiling, the fact that it has been done before doesn't make it a good idea now.

It means it's a non-issue. It's 100% necessary now.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

It means it's a non-issue. It's 100% necessary now.

The economy is not the same as it was in 2002 - 2008. The deficit now is a whole-------------------------------------------whole lot bigger than it was in 2002, or 2008, due not in small fact, that the debt "ceiling" was raised multiple times. 2 wrongs, or 10, don't make a right.

 

[Liquid Karma]

I think it's well known that my position is that we need tax increases and spending cuts that are substantial and broad in nature.

I think here would be a good place to say that I personally consider the cutting of taxes and simultaneous engagement in multiple long term wars to be the most fiscally irresponsible move made by the leaders of this country in a generation.

 

[PhDeac]

I think it's well known that my position is that we need tax increases and spending cuts that are substantial and broad in nature.

I think here would be a good place to say that I personally consider the cutting of taxes and simultaneous engagement in multiple long term wars to be the most fiscally irresponsible move made by the leaders of this country in a generation.

The only people who would disagree with that are the ones who call themselves the fiscally responsible party.

 

[ONW]

I think it's well known that my position is that we need tax increases and spending cuts that are substantial and broad in nature.

I think here would be a good place to say that I personally consider the cutting of taxes and simultaneous engagement in multiple long term wars to be the most fiscally irresponsible move made by the leaders of this country in a generation.

+1

 

[jhmd2000]

Of course we need to raise taxes. And reduce spending. Both acorss the board.

^ As I have repeatedly said. 5% each direction, for everyone and everything.

Everyone and everything.

 

[RJKarl]

We need to increase taxes, cut the defense department, streamline Medicare and even make one central procurment dpeartment for all basic nbeeds for government employees.

In fact, I would take all government employees and put them into a self-insurance group for health insurance. Have them negotiate directly with hospitals and providers to save billions.

Then use the same method for Medicare and prescriptions. There's no way we wouldn't save 10% or more.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

And an unfunded prescription drug plan, and a couple of wars, and a massive tax cut...

Ah, the old "one group of idiots did it, so we get to be even bigger idiots by not learning from their mistakes and do it as well" approach. Fantastic course of action.

 

[ONW]

Ah, the old "one group of idiots did it, so we get to be even bigger idiots by not learning from their mistakes and do it as well" approach. Fantastic course of action.

Sorry, I thought we were talking causation not solutions.

 

[ArlingtonDeac]

"Emergency debt" is simply the symptom of a failure to plan. You don't reward the failure to plan by compounding the mistake. You find some place to cut as the penalty for failure. You certainly don't subsidize the bad behavior by repeating the mistake.

Whether it's a symptom or not, emergency debt exists, and for a purpose. Without taking on this current emergency debt we'd all be eating out of soup cans on the street right now. Those bailouts were imperative, as was most of stimulus.

And I agree that we should have penalized on Wall Street more stringently, and we should break up the 10 big banks now, but I also damn well agree that we had to take on the emergency debt to save our economy from ruin.

 

[ArlingtonDeac]

I think it's well known that my position is that we need tax increases and spending cuts that are substantial and broad in nature.

I think here would be a good place to say that I personally consider the cutting of taxes and simultaneous engagement in multiple long term wars to be the most fiscally irresponsible move made by the leaders of this country in a generation.

This

 

[RJKarl]

The move to get rid of Medicare Advantage in the "Obamacare" bill was a first step at trying to save money in that system.

If we can negotiate RX prices and more directly with providers (doctors and hospitals) we can save even more.