There's not a single democrat who thinks comping vacation time is ok?

[Wakeforest22890]

Seems like the underlying issue here is the same issue underlying a lot of discussions/disagreements over policies in the workplace:

Liberals/progressives believe the number of employers who will do the "right" thing for their employees is relatively small and that this is a natural effect of capitalism. Conservatives believe that employers will generally do the "right" thing for their employees and that there's just a small number of "shitty" employers who give everyone else a bad rap.

Answer is probably somewhere in the middle. I personally have no expectations that an employer is ever going to do me right if the options are the employer is benefited vs. the employee is benefited (if the two are even remotely close to mutual exclusivity).

 

[ImTheCaptain]

Who is pushing this legislation BTW, is it labor groups? Serious question, I havent heard of the proposal until this thread.

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this

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I did a quick google of this question last night because I hadn't heard about it either. Google wasn't helpful - could be my google skills though.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

is it plama?

 

[smallbigtall]

Here's how I see it happening. Job offers you 15 days of PTO. You earn 5 days of extra PTO instead of overtime. So you have banked 20 total. Your first 5 days of time off exhaust your "overtime" PTO. After that, the job denies any PTO requests. After a year, your 15 days of PTO expires and you're SOL.

Or jobs just stop offering PTO up front. Want to earn vacation time? Work your overtime.

This is a good point, and I have a few observations here. I will preface this by saying I have not seen anything specific about the interaction between overtime PTO and regular PTO, so there may be something here that I'm missing.

If the above happened to me as a new employee, the following year I would opt out of the PTO option and instead demand cash. The way the company has shown to handle PTO requests has given me no confidence going forward that I can utilize the 15 days of regular PTO they offered me, let alone any extra I might earn. (If I've been at the company for a few years already, I would know this going in and wouldn't have opted in in the first place.)

To your last point, I do see a reduction in PTO benefits as something that could happen. PTO benefits are not currently protected by FLSA -- the FLSA is only concerned with compensation for time worked, not compensation for time not worked -- so it would be completely legal for a company to reduce PTO benefits due to a nonexempt employee's ability to "earn" vacation time. That said, it would be cheaper to just keep the PTO benefit where it is (preserve employee morale, too) and simply limit the employee's ability to work past 40 hours.

 

[warak]

employers will rarely do the right thing for their employees, especially the larger the business gets (includes lack of personal contact with said employee). i think the more you know an employee the more likely you will do the right thing.


heck, my employer last year made me sell back all of my stored sick time as they changed to PTO. they paid me 1/2 of what it was worth and then was taxed as a gift tax. I would have much rather kept the sick time and used it but they did not allow us to do so (was "manager permitted use" but all said no from my understanding). my wife just lost another 6 hrs of PTO because she was unable to take it due to work travels and meetings...you get capped on what you can roll over per month. neither of those options are fair to the employee.

 

[RJKarl]

palma has gone full early onset "Get off my lawn".

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Is this true? I've always seen more from the "burdensome regulations are burdensome" argument.

Certainly comes up a lot in discussions I have with local business owners and self-identified conservatives up here. Obviously the regulations argument is frequently made as well.

 

[smallbigtall]

I think the opportunity for employers to abuse this idea outweighs the choice benefit gained for employees. More opportunity for obfuscation of earnings.

Can you expand upon this thought? To me, an employer that elects to offer this makes it more difficult for obfuscation of earnings, for the reasons I describe above.

 

[smallbigtall]

employers will rarely do the right thing for their employees, especially the larger the business gets (includes lack of personal contact with said employee). i think the more you know an employee the more likely you will do the right thing.


heck, my employer last year made me sell back all of my stored sick time as they changed to PTO. they paid me 1/2 of what it was worth and then was taxed as a gift tax. I would have much rather kept the sick time and used it but they did not allow us to do so (was "manager permitted use" but all said no from my understanding). my wife just lost another 6 hrs of PTO because she was unable to take it due to work travels and meetings...you get capped on what you can roll over per month. neither of those options are fair to the employee.

This definitely sucks. My company just changed its sick time policy this year and its not as favorable to the employee. Unfortunately PTO/sick time benefits are not protected by law (excluding sick time that qualifies for FMLA which is an entirely different conversation).

 

[dartsndeacs]

I think the opportunity for employers to abuse this idea outweighs the choice benefit gained for employees. More opportunity for obfuscation of earnings.

90% of professional people like and use this option when offered. Y'all way over-estimating the eight people who might get hurt by this bill


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[dartsndeacs]

yea it's just like most things with a potential to be regressive

the pub/palma argument is always "you're rich, this won't affect you, why should you care?"

No it's not. My argument is people like having choices, but you want to have the federal government tell everyone what to do, and not let the employee make the decision and generally assume everyone is helpless and ripe for abuse 24/7.

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[dartsndeacs]

I've had two different jobs in my lifetime with some similar type option. Everyone loved it. Therefore I'm sure the poors would like it too.


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[ChrisL68]

90% of professional people like and use this option when offered. Y'all way over-estimating the eight people who might get hurt by this bill


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Professional people are almost exclusively exempt from overtime laws.

 

[dartsndeacs]

Professional people are almost exclusively exempt from overtime laws.

Correct. But it's not like hourly people are going to hate what virtually all professional people love. Poor people are poor cause they're lazy. They'd love more time not working.


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[RJKarl]

Correct. But it's not like hourly people are going to hate what virtually all professional people love. Poor people are poor cause they're lazy. They'd love more time not working.


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palma has gone for RW/BKF on us.

 

[smallbigtall]

Professional people are almost exclusively exempt from overtime laws.

Not to split hairs, but this is false unless your definition of "professional" is identical to the definition of "professional" under the FLSA, which does have a specific carve-out for exemption.

For one example, under the Obama-appointed DOL Administrator, their strict interpretation of the administrative exemption has resulted in many "professional" (casual definition) jobs being classified as nonexempt and thus entitled to overtime that were never previously so, with the Mortgage Loan Originator being a prime example. It is yet to be seen what the Trump DOL will look like in this regard, but I can't imagine it continuing that way.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Correct. But it's not like hourly people are going to hate what virtually all professional people love. Poor people are poor cause they're lazy. They'd love more time not working.


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lol honest or trolling, i'm glad you posted that. I think everyone wants a better work/life balance. Job security is so tenuous and wages so low for many that they have to work themselves sick. Whatever regulation the government can provide to help those people I will support.

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[dartsndeacs]

palma has gone for RW/BKF on us.

what's the last full time job you've had? #caseinpoint

 

[RJKarl]

Yep, I'm so lazy...