Torture Report Released

[DistrictDeacon]

Then why does the sitting DCI say it worked? A huge, bipartisan, decade and a half unincentivized con? The Fruitless Ruse theory? Makes no sense.

Mr. Brennan began his service in government at the CIA, where he worked from 1980 to 2005. He spent most of his early career in the Agency’s main analytic arm, the Directorate of Intelligence, specializing in the Near East and South Asia before directing counterterrorism analysis in the early 1990s. In 1994 and 1995 he was the Agency’s intelligence briefer to President Bill Clinton.

After an assignment as a Chief of Station in the Middle East, Mr. Brennan served from 1999 to 2001 as Chief of Staff to George Tenet, who was then Director of Central Intelligence. Mr. Brennan next worked as Deputy Executive Director of the CIA until 2003, when he began leading a multi-agency effort to establish what would become the National Counterterrorism Center. In 2004, he became the Center’s Interim Director. After retiring from the CIA in 2005, Mr. Brennan worked in the private sector for three years.


You don't think he has a bit of skin in the game?

 

[jhmd2000]

Mr. Brennan began his service in government at the CIA, where he worked from 1980 to 2005. He spent most of his early career in the Agency’s main analytic arm, the Directorate of Intelligence, specializing in the Near East and South Asia before directing counterterrorism analysis in the early 1990s. In 1994 and 1995 he was the Agency’s intelligence briefer to President Bill Clinton.

After an assignment as a Chief of Station in the Middle East, Mr. Brennan served from 1999 to 2001 as Chief of Staff to George Tenet, who was then Director of Central Intelligence. Mr. Brennan next worked as Deputy Executive Director of the CIA until 2003, when he began leading a multi-agency effort to establish what would become the National Counterterrorism Center. In 2004, he became the Center’s Interim Director. After retiring from the CIA in 2005, Mr. Brennan worked in the private sector for three years.


You don't think he has a bit of skin in the game?

I'd say he has a tremendous amount of skin in the game of getting it right. Would someone please tell me why they would try it "if it never worked"?

 

[Liquid Karma]

Or why they would keep it going for years if it wasn't yielding valuable intel?

 

[PhDeac]

Torture for intel is only reason torture has been used over time. It's naive to think that's the only reason why the U.S. would torture.

 

[ONW]

Don't we outsource/pay Blackwater billions of dollars to make sure these events didn't occur allegedly?

 

[DistrictDeacon]

I'd say he has a tremendous amount of skin in the game of getting it right. Would someone please tell me why they would try it "if it never worked"?

Because the two guys they were paying $80 million had to justify the continuation of their contract. And the CIA had to justify why they were paying them $80 million to torture.

And he has to continue to lie about it because if Obama had any balls, he would be in jail for a long long time.

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

I don't think it's a matter of Obama not having any balls (though I'm not convinced he does have much in the way of balls). You'd need BIG balls to go after the CIA for torture when you're relying on them for your drone war (a drone war that's happened to basically destroy Yemen... OOooops). Now maybe you could cut out or have stopped the drone war when you came in and then you wouldn't have that pickle. But Obama's always been clear that he likes himself some drone warring.



Unrelated, but I like this piece: http://www.mischiefsoffaction.com/2014/12/the-white-house-needs-politicians.html

 

[ImTheCaptain]

we rely on the CIA for the drone war?

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

we rely on the CIA for the drone war?

Yup

 

[ImTheCaptain]

man, the CIA is even cooler than I thought. Too bad it's the navy that gets the laser guns.

 

[RChildress107]

I'd say he has a tremendous amount of skin in the game of getting it right. Would someone please tell me why they would try it "if it never worked"?

Because they are sociopaths? That's all i've got. I can't really fathom why someone would torture another human being.

 

[RJKarl]

Because Chickhenhawk Cheney thinks it works and he would it used on them if they said no.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

I think he would probably say he doesn't ever find number two to be factual or that if it is factual that he doesn't base his opinions of the morality of an action on future outcomes.

 

[PhDeac]

Junebug, would you blow a guy if you thought it was the best way you knew to extract information?

If you would, that's fine for you. But understand that plenty of people wouldn't.

 

[19deac92]

Junebug, would you blow a guy if you thought it was the best way you knew to extract information?

If you would, that's fine for you. But understand that plenty of people wouldn't.

Are you seriously a college professor?

 

[RChildress107]

I don't believe you believe this. How about: the interrogator believes (1) the captive has information that, if revealed, could prevent the imminent death of thousands of american citizens and (2) the only way to extract that information is to "torture" the captive? Does it make no difference to you if the definition of "torture" is either (a) shove a wine bottle up the captive's ass until it comes out of his stomach or (b) deprive the captive of sleep for 36 hours?

Like I told jmhd, debating what constitutes torture is worthwhile. Debating whether torture is ever justified isn't.

I happen to think both of those things are torture and thus it doesn't matter if both 1 and 2 are true.

 

[RJKarl]

Well, he was asking a psychological question about the mindset of the torturer. On the assumption that (1) and (2) are believed, it's not difficult to imagine that mindset.

I will pose a hypothetical: assume, for the sake of argument, that (1) and (2) are true. Torture, in this hypothetical, is defined as interfering with the captive's sleep for a 36 hour period. Do you torture the captive?

We know of at least one person who was kept awake and beaten constantly for 7.5 days.

We know of someone who was chained to the ground and left to freeze to death.

We know of over two dozen totally innocent people who were tortured. We know of British and Canadian citizens who were kidnapped off of streets in Europe and tortured.

We know that the CIA erased many tapes of their torture and of deaths of prisoners.

There's absolutely no defense for what happened.

If you are OK with us torturing people, then can't honestly complain if our people are beheaded, raped or tortured. It's just that simple.

 

[ONW]

This is amazing to me: if you knew that the captive knew the location and detonation codes of 100 atomic bombs, which would kill 1/2 of the population of the U.S., and you knew that the captive would tell you the location of and code for the bombs in time to allow you to diffuse them if you kept him up for 36 hours straight, but not otherwise, you would not keep him up for 36 hours? Do I have that right?

This ticking time bomb, 24, Michael Bay, dramatic cut a finger off and save the world premise is complete garbage. There are so many assumption in your narrative it's jhmdish.

 

[TuffaloDeac10]

Having stayed awake for 36 hours on more than one occasion, I'm not sure why anyone would trust anything said by someone in that state. Seems like a good way to get fever dreams, though!

 

[PhDeac]

This ticking time bomb, 24, Michael Bay, dramatic cut a finger off and save the world premise is complete garbage. There are so many assumption in your narrative it's jhmdish.

It should be easy to answer then. Go.

I'd bring in Professor X to read his mind. If he's not available, I'd ask Wonder Woman to use her lasso of truth.

Both solutions are as plausible as your scenario.