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Totally Unofficial 2019/2020 Premier League Thread (NWT)

deacvision7 said:
And I cannot prove it but I know for certain regardless that scouts of top-tier teams don't look at a damn StatsBomb radar chart when they consider if they would recommend a player to their manager or not.

And one would be fired if they tried to show on one of these radar charts that a player improved from their Year 23 season to their Year 24 season. Because no fucking shit they did, otherwise, why bother caring about the player in the first place?
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Probably not since scouts aren't the same as data scientists. But a data scientist may very well use a radar or any such Statsbomb visualization, like a passing model, xG chain, etc. when talking recruitment with a football director or technical director. I don't know if you're knocking radars as a viz, Statsbomb as a company, or statistics in general with this rant, so it's tough to really argue against.

And you can glean a lot from a radar year over year. Like, if goal numbers dip but you're seeing more assists and pressure regains and tackles and deep progressions you can guess the player was asked to do different things for the club. And you can do all this with dozens or hundreds of targets from a desktop rather than trying to scout the globe. Nobody would try to do it with scouts alone or data scientists alone, and it seems foolish to me to knock either approach.
 
Jesus Christ. OK, Mr. Semantics. My mistake. I'll clarify between player scout, team scout, team data analyst, team data scientist, player data analyst, and player data scientist in the future.

Please forgive me for just lumping them all into "scouting" as that is a nomenclature that most would understand. My bad, brah.
 
i guess i am just trying to understand the point you're making

statsbomb does work for big clubs who use their data to successfully build clubs

radars are an easy way of visualizing how good a player is by percentile rank of different skills

not sure what else you're after in your line of arguing
 
TownieDeac said:
Probably not since scouts aren't the same as data scientists. But a data scientist may very well use a radar or any such Statsbomb visualization, like a passing model, xG chain, etc. when talking recruitment with a football director or technical director. I don't know if you're knocking radars as a viz, Statsbomb as a company, or statistics in general with this rant, so it's tough to really argue against.

And you can glean a lot from a radar year over year. Like, if goal numbers dip but you're seeing more assists and pressure regains and tackles and deep progressions you can guess the player was asked to do different things for the club. And you can do all this with dozens or hundreds of targets from a desktop rather than trying to scout the globe. Nobody would try to do it with scouts alone or data scientists alone, and it seems foolish to me to knock either approach.
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WHICH I'M NOT FUCKING DOING

deacvision7 said:
2) They don't look at one stat, flawed or not, alone and come to a conclusion
3) They have many better advanced statistics than we are privy to
4) They also scout the players in person to see how they actually play vs look on a spreadsheet
5) They literally do this for a living and are much better and analyzing these particular data sets much better than we are due to experience, learned successes/failures, and comfortableness with the subject matter.
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fuck sake.
 
TownieDeac said:
i guess i am just trying to understand the point you're making

statsbomb does work for big clubs who use their data to successfully build clubs

radars are an easy way of visualizing how good a player is by percentile rank of different skills

not sure what else you're after in your line of arguing
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My point is that after 60 minutes, but which feels like 60 days, is that you are tiresome and just love to build strawmen arguments.


If N. Pepe is signed by United (remember, this is how this discussion got started), then I will support him, but I remain unsold about a player that didn't achieve much until he was 22 and possibly entered a purple patch of form; especially for the fee that is being rumored that he would cost.

Sorry to question your copy/pasted graphic. I know you put a lot of work into it.
 
TownieDeac said:
I'm fine with separating the kinds of discussions I have with different kinds of sports fans. If I'm watching a baseball game with my dad I'm not talking about Mike Trout's WAR. If I'm talking to Everton friends or Sixers friends who are data nerds like me, it's a useful way to talk about roster construction, which is important to your team being good and fun to cheer for. The important thing for data nerds is to not go full rj and just act like stats have all the answers. Anybody who does modeling will acknowledge the limits of their models to the point where you'll question their value.

you just gotta find that balance
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El Chupacabra said:
The thing is that with soccer the aim has always been to get as close and central to the goal for opportunities, so there won't really be any strategic shifts like swinging for the fences every time, and you don't get more points for a 30 yarder, so no need to worry about teams suddenly taking all those at the expense of those beautiful, glorious, old school mid-range jumpers.

Instead you are starting to see teams do fun shit like creative set pieces.

Some of the nerds are insufferable though, and fun to make fun of, it's true. Like that dork Knutson.
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Fair points. I think I'm still just enraged at the USSF/SUM apologists who tried to suggest that the Gold Cup Final was a success for Berhalter because the US had a higher xG than Mexico. Made me want to meet these people in person and strangle them.
 
Liverpool’s team tonight is pretty weird. I guess just getting the most first teamers the most time, or a sign he is prepared to grind out the first bit of the season with who has been training most. Fabinho, Milner, Henderson midfield with AOC and Wijnaldum either side of Origi. Should be solid af at least.
 
And Bruno hits a knuckler that Mignolet butchers — goes between his legs. Great stuff.
 
Wow, Spurs are inquiring after Paulo Dybala from Juve. Dan is a solid source.
 
Sporting player leaves his feet and almost breaks Wijnaldum’s ankle while Oxlade-Chamberlain is feeling his calf half an hour in. Sweet.
 
El Chupacabra said:
And Bruno hits a knuckler that Mignolet butchers — goes between his legs. Great stuff.
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I guess it bounced off his forearm then behind him, not between his legs. Still terrible, but it was moving. Liverpool up 2-1 but Sporting had two legit other chances. Not terrible but still way too sloppy.
 
Sepp van den Ballon d’Or. The debut. Finally.

But too late for the otherwise inevitable winner. It finishes 2-2, and The Western Union cup is shared.
 
vadimivich said:
Alasdair Gold as well, and he's basically Levy's moutpiece. It's clear Spurs leaked this directly and intentionally.
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no, surely Levy isn't doing exactly what he accuses others of doing in tapping a player up in the media! say it ain't so!
 
when SkySports said yesterday that United are not interested in Bruno Fernandes the only reason I could have thought that was possible is if they were interested in another creative midfielder instead. Then this story came out of the rumor mill last night:

Manchester United have asked to be kept informed about the future of Tottenham midfielder Christian Eriksen, 27. The Denmark international has a year remaining on his contract and could leave for £70m. (Mail)

Like clockwork.
 
vadimivich said:
Alasdair Gold as well, and he's basically Levy's moutpiece. It's clear Spurs leaked this directly and intentionally.
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Yep, likely to put pressure on the GLC deal by the sounds of it. Kind of crazy to think it could actually happen in this universe, though.
 
At the first half water break United lead Spurs 1-0 in Shanghai. Anthony Martial with the goal thanks to some shit goalkeeping.

Great ball by Andreas to spring him in tho
 
Sounds like Nicolas Pepe might be off to Napoli, so we don't need to worry how the numbers will translate to the Premier League now, anyway.
 
vicious deflection off Shaw gives Lucas Moura the equalizer. Romero comically wrong-footed and the ball slowly dribbled over the line.
 
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