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TX Using Scientific "Lennie" Test To Determine If People Are Retarded Enough To Live

yeah part of the problem is Texas' (the state) eagerness to execute people in general. Maybe the guy was smarter than the 61 IQ but the fact that he is well below normal limits would lead me to err on the side of caution.
 
TX has a backup plan if the "Lennie" criteria is found to be illegal:

Criminals will be shown pictures of a cat, a dog or naked tits. If they can identify one of the pictures, they qualify to be executed.

If they fail that test, they will be asked to point to their nose, their ear or their mouth. If they find one, they qualify to be executed.
 
He apparently had multiple tests run, and on several of them he scored higher. I don't know why everyone says "He had an IQ of 61." The appropriate statement is "one of several tests showed he had an IQ of 61."

Apparently Texas was convinced he was manipulating, or attempting to manipulate, his scores of some of the tests too.

I totally agree mentally retarded people should not be executed. But this dude was operating criminal schemes with decoys, front men, etc. He even schemed to execute a snitch at one point. I find it unlikely that a mental retard was running such criminal schemes.

The compelling "evidence" for his conviction wasn't forensics or an eyewitness. It was the wife of his accomplice who said "my husband didn't kill the guy, Wilson did." Both self-serving and uncompelling. But I guess it worked. Sure hope he doesn't become one of the 250+ former inmates who've been exonerated post-conviction; oh wait, that's right. Too late.
 
yeah part of the problem is Texas' (the state) eagerness to execute people in general. Maybe the guy was smarter than the 61 IQ but the fact that he is well below normal limits would lead me to err on the side of caution.

Yea, defs. We execute a shit load of people. Caution is definitely warranted, and part of me wants to say that the long-ass appeals process provides that kind of caution. I'm sure nearly 100 people saw information on this dude at some point in the past 15-20 years. At the same time, there was that Columbia law review article that came out within the past year that pretty clearly showed the state fucked it up one time back in the 1970's.
 
They also also executed an innocent man in Willingham. Cost of doing business to them.
 
They also also executed an innocent man in Willingham. Cost of doing business to them.

Pretty much. It sucks. I consider myself pretty squarely anti death penalty, but given current laws I'm also not convinced that this execution was a flagrantly wrong as HuffPo or MSNBC makes it seem.
 
It's not Huffo and MSNBC, it Innocence Project and multiple arson experts. Who cares what Huffpo says?
 
Pretty much. It sucks. I consider myself pretty squarely anti death penalty, but given current laws I'm also not convinced that this execution was a flagrantly wrong as HuffPo or MSNBC makes it seem.

These two assertions are diametrically opposed.
 
Washington State “At the trial level, death penalty cases are estimated to generate roughly $470,000 in additional costs to the prosecution and defense over the cost of trying the same case as an aggravated murder without the death penalty and costs of $47,000 to $70,000 for court personnel.” (Final Report of the Death Penalty Subcommittee of the Committee on Public Defense, Washington State Bar Association, December 2006,
http://www.wsba.org/lawyers/groups/commi…

Kansas: “The study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that ]the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. Non-death penalty cases were counted through to the end of incarceration and were found to have a median cost of $740,000. For death penalty cases, the pre-trial and trial level expenses were the most expensive part, 49% of the total cost. The investigation costs for death-sentence cases were about 3 times greater than for non-death cases. The trial costs for death cases were about 16 times greater than for non-death cases ($508,000 for death case; $32,000 for non-death case).” (. Kansas: Performance Audit Report: Costs Incurred for Death Penalty Cases: A K-GOAL Audit of the Department of Corrections)

North Carolina: The most comprehensive death penalty study in the country found that the death penalty costs North Carolina $2.16 million more per execution ]than the a non-death penalty murder case with a sentence of life imprisonment (http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/northcar…
links to ("The Costs of Processing Murder Cases in North Carolina" Duke University, May 1993)

The numbers vary from state to state, but the conclusion is the same.

Why is the death penalty so expensive? The costs of the death penalty begin to accumulate from the very beginning of a death penalty case. Here are just a few of the contributing factors:

• more pre-trial time will be needed to prepare: cases typically take a year to come
to trial
• more pre-trial motions will be filed and answered
• more experts will be hired
• twice as many attorneys will be appointed for the defense, and a comparable team for the prosecution
• jurors will have to be individually quizzed on their views about the death penalty, and they are more likely to be sequestered
• two trials instead of one will be conducted: one for guilt and one for punishment
• the trial will be longer: a cost study at Duke University estimated that death penalty trials take 3 to 5 times longer than typical murder trials

Of course, after conviction and sentencing, there will be at least one appeal, while inmates are held in the high and expensive security of death row.



And when you make prisons for profit operations, how can you fault them?

Do you take people behind the shed and shoot them in the name of justice or financial considerations?

I'm really conflicted on this topic. Opinions from the board?
 
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These two assertions are diametrically opposed.

Not even close.

Seems pretty clear that one can believe a law should be changed while at the same time admitting the case meets the criteria under the law as it currently stands, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's what TexasDeac was saying.
 
Not even close.

Seems pretty clear that one can believe a law should be changed while at the same time admitting the case meets the criteria under the law as it currently stands, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's what TexasDeac was saying.

From that paradigm, wouldn't the constitution be irrelevant?
 
The issue is whether or not he had any awareness and understanding of his crimes.

Did the kid have any understanding that what he did was wrong? He certainly seemed to understand that he was about to be executed.


Whether he understands what he did was wrong has nothing to do with whether he can be executed. You are talking about an insanity defense. Insanity is a defense to a conviction. Here, the guy was convicted. The issue here is whether he understands he is going to be executed and why. If not, he can't be executed, but he can spend the rest of his life in prison.
 
From that paradigm, wouldn't the constitution be irrelevant?

What does the constitution have to do with it? The death penalty is constitutional (a matter for the courts to decide). Whether or not it's good policy is for the people and elected officials to decide.
 
Not even close.

Seems pretty clear that one can believe a law should be changed while at the same time admitting the case meets the criteria under the law as it currently stands, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's what TexasDeac was saying.

To put it simply, the view that the DP is wrong is independent of any law or government. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you view the DP as wrong, it's always wrong regardless of what any law says. Otherwise one could argue that the execution of gays in Iran or stonings of adulterers in Mali aren't "wrong" since they fit the local laws. Regardless, we rocket scientists can just let TexasDeac say what he wants rather than interpreting for him.
 
To put it simply, the view that the DP is wrong is independent of any law or government. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you view the DP as wrong, it's always wrong regardless of what any law says. Otherwise one could argue that the execution of gays in Iran or stonings of adulterers in Mali aren't "wrong" since they fit the local laws. Regardless, we rocket scientists can just let TexasDeac say what he wants rather than interpreting for him.

This.
 
To put it simply, the view that the DP is wrong is independent of any law or government. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you view the DP as wrong, it's always wrong regardless of what any law says. Otherwise one could argue that the execution of gays in Iran or stonings of adulterers in Mali aren't "wrong" since they fit the local laws. Regardless, we rocket scientists can just let TexasDeac say what he wants rather than interpreting for him.

Eh I'm at lunch, but ill respond more later if you want. The confusion probably stems from my use of the word 'wrong' instead of 'incorrect ruling'. I would oppose executing gays in Iran, but it's another thing to say that something was correctly decided in their system of process (what process they may have).
 
Whether he understands what he did was wrong has nothing to do with whether he can be executed. You are talking about an insanity defense. Insanity is a defense to a conviction. Here, the guy was convicted. The issue here is whether he understands he is going to be executed and why. If not, he can't be executed, but he can spend the rest of his life in prison.

It seems to me that fundamental understanding and awareness has been a compelling factor when considering not only one's sanity, but also their level of mental retardation and when choosing to prosecute minors as adults.
 
Here's the opinion that was handed down denying a stay of execution. I've never had occasion to read many of these last-minute emergency opinions, but you can tell they're written in a very short time. Pretty sloppy stuff.

http://www.cca.courts.state.tx.us/OPINIONS/PDFOPINIONINFO2.ASP?OPINIONID=22822

Triple Edit: Couldn't find the "Lenne" language earlier because it apparently came from a 2004 Texas CCA decision, which either wasn't listed in the first couple articles I read or I just missed. Anyway, here's the relevant passage of that opinion just hard copy/pasted from westlaw (footnotes omitted, because I'm not that tech savvy).

A. Defining “mental retardation” for purposes of Atkins.

As the Supreme Court had previously noted, the mentally retarded are not “all cut from the same pattern ... they range from those whose disability is not immediately evident to those who must be constantly cared for.”10 In Atkins, the Supreme Court noted that any “serious disagreement about the execution of mentally retarded offenders ... is in determining which offenders are in fact retarded.”11 Reasoning that “[n]ot all people who claim to be mentally retarded will be so impaired as to fall within the range of mentally retarded offenders about whom there is a national consensus,”12 the Court left “to the States the task of developing appropriate ways to enforce the constitutional restriction upon its execution of sentences.”13

The term “mental retardation” encompasses a large and diverse population suffering from some form of mental disability. The DSM–IV14 categorizes the mentally retarded into four subcategories: mildly mentally retarded, moderately mentally retarded, severely mentally retarded, and profoundly mentally retarded.15 Some 85% of those officially categorized as mentally retarded fall into the highest group, *6 those mildly mentally retarded,16 but “mental retardation is not necessarily a lifelong disorder.”17 The functioning level of those who are mildly mentally retarded is likely to improve with supplemental social services and assistance.18 It is thus understandable that those in the mental health profession should define mental retardation broadly to provide an adequate safety net for those who are at the margin and might well become mentally-unimpaired citizens if given additional social services support.

We, however, must define that level and degree of mental retardation at which a consensus of Texas citizens would agree that a person should be exempted from the death penalty. Most Texas citizens might agree that Steinbeck's Lennie19 should, by virtue of his lack of reasoning ability and adaptive skills, be exempt. But, does a consensus of Texas citizens agree that all persons who might legitimately qualify for assistance under the social services definition of mental retardation be exempt from an otherwise constitutional penalty? Put another way, is there a national or Texas consensus that all of those persons whom the mental health profession might diagnose as meeting the criteria for mental retardation are automatically less morally culpable than those who just barely miss meeting those criteria? Is there, and should there be, a “mental retardation” bright-line exemption from our state's maximum statutory punishment? As a court dealing with individual cases and litigants, we decline to answer that normative question without significantly greater assistance from the citizenry acting through its Legislature.

Although Texas does not yet have any statutory provisions to implement the Atkins decision, the 77th Legislature passed House Bill 236 in 2001, even before the Atkins decision was announced, which would have prohibited the execution of mentally retarded defendants convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death.20 That bill adopted the definition of mental retardation found in TEX. HEALTH & SAFETY CODE § 591.003(13): “ ‘mental retardation’ means significant subaverage general intellectual functioning that is concurrent with deficits in adaptive behavior and originates during the developmental period.”21 This bill, however, was vetoed by the Governor. The 78th Texas Legislature did not *7 pass a statute implementing Atkins, although several bills were introduced and considered.22

This Court has previously employed the definitions of “mental retardation” set out by the American Association on Mental Retardation (AAMR), and that contained in section 591.003(13) of the Texas Health and Safety Code.23 Under the AAMR definition, mental retardation is a disability characterized by: (1) “significantly subaverage” general intellectual functioning;24 (2) accompanied by “related” limitations in adaptive functioning;25 (3) the onset of which occurs prior to the age of 18.26 As noted above, the definition under the Texas Health and Safety Code is similar: “ ‘mental retardation’ means significantly subaverage general intellectual functioning that is concurrent with deficits in adaptive behavior and originates during the developmental period.”27

*8 2 Some might question whether the same definition of mental retardation that is used for providing psychological assistance, social services, and financial aid is appropriate for use in criminal trials to decide whether execution of a particular person would be constitutionally excessive punishment.28 However, that definitional question29 is not before us in this case because applicant, the State, and the trial court all used the AAMR definition. Until the Texas Legislature provides an alternate statutory definition of “mental retardation” for use in capital sentencing, we will follow the AAMR or section 591.003(13) criteria in addressing Atkins mental retardation claims.

3 The adaptive behavior criteria are exceedingly subjective, and undoubtedly experts will be found to offer opinions on both sides of the issue in most cases. There are, however, some other evidentiary factors which factfinders in the criminal trial context might also focus upon in weighing evidence as indicative of mental retardation or of a personality disorder:
· Did those who knew the person best during the developmental stage—his family, friends, teachers, employers, authorities—think he was mentally retarded at that time, and, if so, act in accordance with that determination?
· Has the person formulated plans and carried them through or is his conduct impulsive?
· Does his conduct show leadership or does it show that he is led around by others?
· Is his conduct in response to external stimuli rational and appropriate, regardless of whether it is socially acceptable?
· Does he respond coherently, rationally, and on point to oral or written questions or do his responses wander from subject to subject?
· Can the person hide facts or lie effectively in his own or others' interests?
· Putting aside any heinousness or gruesomeness surrounding the capital *9 offense, did the commission of that offense require forethought, planning, and complex execution of purpose?

Although experts may offer insightful opinions on the question of whether a particular person meets the psychological diagnostic criteria for mental retardation, the ultimate issue of whether this person is, in fact, mentally retarded for purposes of the Eighth Amendment ban on excessive punishment is one for the finder of fact, based upon all of the evidence and determinations of credibility.30
 
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i know a guy named lennie who i am pretty sure is mentally retarded
 
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