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Lectro is actually making some very interesting points about energy reserves in the region playing a huge roll in this.
Ukraine : The ongoing battle over energy
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bigdoublezero
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In the sense that energy reserves in the region play a huge role in this? Or something deeper than that?
WakeandBake
Well-known member
My girlfriend asked me what was going on in Ukraine over a week ago. My two word response: oil pipeline.
This is new news??
This is new news??
Multiple points...take the timing of this "dog-wagging" event which turns the light away from plummeting Presidential approval ratings.
You add the elements of "Manufacturing Consent" and it brings all predominant media into sharp contrast. Main stream media is still engaged in the old tactics of opinion making yet people have more and more access to information previously depressed/suppressed.Ideally,this is a condition the web was supposed to alleviate.
So it is an important issue if your major outlets- Fox, CNN etc.,- are actively misleading the public as to the nature of the dispute. Setting this up as a fight for self-determination,humanitarian need and the like is a flat out lie. I'd say it's pretty important for a general public to have something other than trough-fed opinion. That's how war starts
The violation of our own agreements to not meddle in the affairs of other states. Frankly the most disgusting facet of this deal is Fox News wondering about "Obama's 'costs'" and being "afraid"...
What a load of krap...how twisted can it get? Hesus Kristy! The present administration is behind the coup in the Ukraine. It is a very aggressive step to cut Russian supply ties to Europe.
*Don't misunderstand...Vladimir suffers from the Napoleonic syndrome and cannot be trusted. Creating unrest in places like Georgia is second hat to this KGB spook. Sometimes it's just liberating to talk about what's actually happening as opposed to the media's blue-room fictions being fed to the people.
You add the elements of "Manufacturing Consent" and it brings all predominant media into sharp contrast. Main stream media is still engaged in the old tactics of opinion making yet people have more and more access to information previously depressed/suppressed.Ideally,this is a condition the web was supposed to alleviate.
So it is an important issue if your major outlets- Fox, CNN etc.,- are actively misleading the public as to the nature of the dispute. Setting this up as a fight for self-determination,humanitarian need and the like is a flat out lie. I'd say it's pretty important for a general public to have something other than trough-fed opinion. That's how war starts
The violation of our own agreements to not meddle in the affairs of other states. Frankly the most disgusting facet of this deal is Fox News wondering about "Obama's 'costs'" and being "afraid"...
What a load of krap...how twisted can it get? Hesus Kristy! The present administration is behind the coup in the Ukraine. It is a very aggressive step to cut Russian supply ties to Europe.
*Don't misunderstand...Vladimir suffers from the Napoleonic syndrome and cannot be trusted. Creating unrest in places like Georgia is second hat to this KGB spook. Sometimes it's just liberating to talk about what's actually happening as opposed to the media's blue-room fictions being fed to the people.
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Machiavellian survey says...
Seriously though...a scorecard so far:
(A) President is suffering from 2nd term doldrums. His administration administers a coup in Ukraine.
(B) Western press trumpets Kremlin aggression when in fact Russia has, at least temporarily,lost control of a major portion of one it's patron states
(C) John McCain and other prominent Republicans are forced to respond. They are hell bent to see Barack pay for this misdirection and will cast him as "weak" in the face of old Soviet style aggression. What would Reagan do?
(D) The pubs at McCain's level are more than aware of our attempts to destabilize the elected government in the Ukraine. Pro oil and pro U.S. Energy policy across the board.
(E) This next fact is somewhat amazing considering the framing being done in the mass media. The Russians are the only ones who have given up any territory so far. Hahahahaha...Brilliant! The Ukraine is a Russian chess piece and so far Vlad has only been able to regain Crimea. The Russians are pissed at the post-Sochi shop-lifting as they are being portrayed as the aggressors!!
Hahahaha...
If Barack Obama is able to keep the Ukraine then he has scored a tremendous victory. Joe Biden would call it a "big fuggin deal!" and he'd be right. In one fell swoop he may have found a way to appease the natural gas interests with lucrative new contracts while also handing the environmentalists the scalp (Keystone) they feel they have earned.
Seriously though...a scorecard so far:
(A) President is suffering from 2nd term doldrums. His administration administers a coup in Ukraine.
(B) Western press trumpets Kremlin aggression when in fact Russia has, at least temporarily,lost control of a major portion of one it's patron states
(C) John McCain and other prominent Republicans are forced to respond. They are hell bent to see Barack pay for this misdirection and will cast him as "weak" in the face of old Soviet style aggression. What would Reagan do?
(D) The pubs at McCain's level are more than aware of our attempts to destabilize the elected government in the Ukraine. Pro oil and pro U.S. Energy policy across the board.
(E) This next fact is somewhat amazing considering the framing being done in the mass media. The Russians are the only ones who have given up any territory so far. Hahahahaha...Brilliant! The Ukraine is a Russian chess piece and so far Vlad has only been able to regain Crimea. The Russians are pissed at the post-Sochi shop-lifting as they are being portrayed as the aggressors!!
Hahahaha...If Barack Obama is able to keep the Ukraine then he has scored a tremendous victory. Joe Biden would call it a "big fuggin deal!" and he'd be right. In one fell swoop he may have found a way to appease the natural gas interests with lucrative new contracts while also handing the environmentalists the scalp (Keystone) they feel they have earned.
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Background Check --
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/22090-neocons-and-the-ukraine-coup
The Orchestral section:
Now, you have Assistant Secretary of State Nuland, the wife of prominent neocon Robert Kagan, acting as a leading instigator in the Ukrainian unrest, explicitly seeking to pry the country out of the Russian orbit. Last December, she reminded Ukrainian business leaders that, to help Ukraine achieve “its European aspirations, we have invested more than $5 billion.” She said the U.S. goal was to take “Ukraine into the future that it deserves.”
The Kagan family includes other important neocons, such as Frederick Kagan, who was a principal architect of the Iraq and Afghan “surge” strategies. In Duty, Gates writes that “an important way station in my ‘pilgrim’s progress’ from skepticism to support of more troops [in Afghanistan] was an essay by the historian Fred Kagan, who sent me a prepublication draft.
“I knew and respected Kagan. He had been a prominent proponent of the surge in Iraq, and we had talked from time to time about both wars, including one long evening conversation on the veranda of one of Saddam’s palaces in Baghdad.”
Now, another member of the Kagan family, albeit an in-law, has been orchestrating the escalation of tensions in Ukraine with an eye toward one more “regime change.”
As for Nuland’s sidekick, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Pyatt previously served as a U.S. diplomat in Vienna involved in bringing the International Atomic Energy Agency into a line with U.S. and Israeli hostility toward Iran. A July 9, 2009, cable from Pyatt, which was released by Pvt. Bradley Manning, revealed Pyatt to be the middleman who coordinated strategy with the U.S.-installed IAEA director-general Yukiya Amano.
http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/22090-neocons-and-the-ukraine-coup
The Orchestral section:
Now, you have Assistant Secretary of State Nuland, the wife of prominent neocon Robert Kagan, acting as a leading instigator in the Ukrainian unrest, explicitly seeking to pry the country out of the Russian orbit. Last December, she reminded Ukrainian business leaders that, to help Ukraine achieve “its European aspirations, we have invested more than $5 billion.” She said the U.S. goal was to take “Ukraine into the future that it deserves.”
The Kagan family includes other important neocons, such as Frederick Kagan, who was a principal architect of the Iraq and Afghan “surge” strategies. In Duty, Gates writes that “an important way station in my ‘pilgrim’s progress’ from skepticism to support of more troops [in Afghanistan] was an essay by the historian Fred Kagan, who sent me a prepublication draft.
“I knew and respected Kagan. He had been a prominent proponent of the surge in Iraq, and we had talked from time to time about both wars, including one long evening conversation on the veranda of one of Saddam’s palaces in Baghdad.”
Now, another member of the Kagan family, albeit an in-law, has been orchestrating the escalation of tensions in Ukraine with an eye toward one more “regime change.”
As for Nuland’s sidekick, U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Pyatt previously served as a U.S. diplomat in Vienna involved in bringing the International Atomic Energy Agency into a line with U.S. and Israeli hostility toward Iran. A July 9, 2009, cable from Pyatt, which was released by Pvt. Bradley Manning, revealed Pyatt to be the middleman who coordinated strategy with the U.S.-installed IAEA director-general Yukiya Amano.
Actually, Barack deserves the credit on this deal. When Foreign Affairs and Cato and the tanks get hold of this in order to manufacture their histories there will be parties who will say "the actions had long been set in motion by Neo Cons" - the Pearle's and Wolfowitz' of the world- but in the end, whether with help from Cold War specialist Gates or the hawkish Hillary, the President gets the credit for this one. The timing was perfect, IMO.
When I want to know what's going on in the world I simply turn to Hannity. I know that he will most assuredly feed his gulls the most basic state department fabrications. I'm certain they seek the son of a bitch out because he can feed some patriotic slop like few out there. The guy is money.
So then, shock of shocks, Hannity invites Pat Buchanan to his show today...Hannity jumps straight into it and he hits the old cold warrior with some blustery nonsense about the "need for freedom and a strong leader like Reagan to stand up to this tyrant..." Anyway, Hannity rambles on and on and gets lost in his thought when suddenly Buchanan interrupts and asks "what are you talking about? Putin just got a pawn in exchange for a Rook!"
Needless to say Hannity was speechless...after he gathered himself - he had to be thinking "that's the last time I invite that old bastard on air" - he engaged Buchanan in "reality" and said the neo cons were responsible for the turn of events in the Ukraine and that Obama was too weak to have engineered such a feat. Buchanan,to his credit,steered around Hannity's rant and said it was plainly a foreign policy victory.
I have to say I agree. I believe history will regard this as Obama's signature foreign policy moment and a clear victory. Cold and calculated...right while the guy was trying to keep his eyes on the continuous stream of western fed stories of "terrorism fears at the Olympics"...all while we fomented a government overthrow next door. Hahahaha...These guys are good.
When I want to know what's going on in the world I simply turn to Hannity. I know that he will most assuredly feed his gulls the most basic state department fabrications. I'm certain they seek the son of a bitch out because he can feed some patriotic slop like few out there. The guy is money.
So then, shock of shocks, Hannity invites Pat Buchanan to his show today...Hannity jumps straight into it and he hits the old cold warrior with some blustery nonsense about the "need for freedom and a strong leader like Reagan to stand up to this tyrant..." Anyway, Hannity rambles on and on and gets lost in his thought when suddenly Buchanan interrupts and asks "what are you talking about? Putin just got a pawn in exchange for a Rook!"
Needless to say Hannity was speechless...after he gathered himself - he had to be thinking "that's the last time I invite that old bastard on air" - he engaged Buchanan in "reality" and said the neo cons were responsible for the turn of events in the Ukraine and that Obama was too weak to have engineered such a feat. Buchanan,to his credit,steered around Hannity's rant and said it was plainly a foreign policy victory.
I have to say I agree. I believe history will regard this as Obama's signature foreign policy moment and a clear victory. Cold and calculated...right while the guy was trying to keep his eyes on the continuous stream of western fed stories of "terrorism fears at the Olympics"...all while we fomented a government overthrow next door. Hahahaha...These guys are good.
WFFaithful
Well-known member
:thumbsup:
This will end in a Ukrainian civil war with direct connections to the fight in Syria.
I don't know if "impressed" is the right word but it never ceases to amaze me when all predominant western sources turn into propaganda arms for Oil.
Clearly the West were the aggressors here and have beautifully cast the off-guard Putin as a land grabbing tyrant.
Also nice to know that our Neo Con in Chief. John McCain,has been at the forefront of the charge to destabilize the Ukraine. He has us in bed with Nazi's whose ultra-nationalism has fueled the overthrow.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2014/02/19/18751257.php
I don't know if "impressed" is the right word but it never ceases to amaze me when all predominant western sources turn into propaganda arms for Oil.
Clearly the West were the aggressors here and have beautifully cast the off-guard Putin as a land grabbing tyrant.
Also nice to know that our Neo Con in Chief. John McCain,has been at the forefront of the charge to destabilize the Ukraine. He has us in bed with Nazi's whose ultra-nationalism has fueled the overthrow.
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2014/02/19/18751257.php
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