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UNC-G, 7:00 PM; ESPN3--On a TUESDAY!

Doggus said:
I think the poster is referring to Dinos's jump from 72% to 90% at the line this year.
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Thank you for clarifying my point. Dinos went from 72% FT made last season to 90% so far this season. Devin went from 59% last year to 59% so far this year (and on 83 attempts so far this year, so not a small sample size).

Devin gets to the FT line a lot. If his made FT% got to around 70, (say, half of Dinos' improvement) hack-a-Devin would be less enticing. If Devin's FT success rate gets to 75% or more, hack-a-Devin would be downright stupid.
 
Devin hasn't picked up a technical yet this year, right? So we've got that going for us.
 
Deaconblue said:
Thank you for clarifying my point. Dinos went from 72% FT made last season to 90% so far this season. Devin went from 59% last year to 59% so far this year (and on 83 attempts so far this year, so not a small sample size).

Devin gets to the FT line a lot. If his made FT% got to around 70, (say, half of Dinos' improvement) hack-a-Devin would be less enticing. If Devin's FT success rate gets to 75% or more, hack-a-Devin would be downright stupid.
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Dinos's jump made sense because he is a good shooter to begin with. The large majority of his field goal attempts are jump shots from 15 feet or more. I would imagine this holds true for practice as well. Good shooters typically make good free throw shooters. This means he doesn't have to worry about his form, but rather on his focus on the line and managing his fatigue (both of which can contribute to lower free throw percentage).

Expecting much of a jump from Devin probably isn't that realistic. It's also probably not the best use of his practice time. I know some people tend to think that improving your free throw shooting is simply a matter of shooting 100 free throws every day. It's a lot more involved than that. Devin's shooting form is understandably not that great and certainly not that repeatable. He simply doesn't have the time to put in the work it would take to get his FT percentage above 70%.
 
mercurydime said:
He has 24 hours a day like everybody else we know.
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Those 24 hours are pretty jam-packed for a student athlete. Even if he spent every spare minute shooting free throws I still doubt he'd get above 70%.

A free throw shot, like a golf shot, is not developed over night. It is developed over years and years of practice.
 
RChildress107 said:
Devin's shooting form is understandably not that great and certainly not that repeatable. He simply doesn't have the time to put in the work it would take to get his FT percentage above 70%.
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Nor the talent. Cracks me up when the OWGs think there's some linear relationship between FT shooting and time spent practicing them.
 
RChildress107 said:
Those 24 hours are pretty jam-packed for a student athlete. Even if he spent every spare minute shooting free throws I still doubt he'd get above 70%.

A free throw shot, like a golf shot, is not developed over night. It is developed over years and years of practice.
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Changing a big part of a player's swing or shot? Agree that it takes a while to do, but to change smaller aspects of a swing/shot takes not nearly as long. The thing is that Devin seems to have "passable" form this season and was shooting well until a few games ago, where he went absolutely cold. So it's probably something really small or a mental thing that an expert could identify. The coach doing color commentary last game even made a comment about allowing him to take Devin for an afternoon and he'd have him shooting above 60/70%. In addition, Devin knows he can shoot better at the line since he spent time in the gym after the UNCG game & his poor free throw performance.
 
IslandDeac said:
Changing a big part of a player's swing or shot? Agree that it takes a while to do, but to change smaller aspects of a swing/shot takes not nearly as long. The thing is that Devin seems to have "passable" form this season and was shooting well until a few games ago, where he went absolutely cold. So it's probably something really small or a mental thing that an expert could identify. The coach doing color commentary last game even made a comment about allowing him to take Devin for an afternoon and he'd have him shooting above 60/70%. In addition, Devin knows he can shoot better at the line since he spent time in the gym after the UNCG game & his poor free throw performance.
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I've got a "passable" golf swing. But I could spend every day for the next year tweaking it and I still wouldn't be on tour. Devin can certainly shoot better than 36% (over the last two games) from the line and I agree that the drop from around 60% to <40% is likely mental or fatigue related.

Any coach who thinks they can spend one afternoon with a guy and get him above 70% from the line is either bullshitting or not a very good coach.

It would be a waste of Devin's time to spend a ton of time on free throws. Putting an inordinate amount of focus on the issue likely isn't going to help with the mental pressure and his form is not going to get better enough to make a significant difference. Even if Devin somehow jumped from 55% to 80% from the line we are only looking at around 2 points a game.

I'd rather him spend that time battling with Dre, Moore, and JC in practice or learning how to pass out of a double team. He's more likely to find 2 extra points for his team in those areas than he is at the free throw line.
 
RChildress107 said:
I've got a "passable" golf swing. But I could spend every day for the next year tweaking it and I still wouldn't be on tour. Devin can certainly shoot better than 36% (over the last two games) from the line and I agree that the drop from around 60% to <40% is likely mental or fatigue related.

Any coach who thinks they can spend one afternoon with a guy and get him above 70% from the line is either bullshitting or not a very good coach.

It would be a waste of Devin's time to spend a ton of time on free throws. Putting an inordinate amount of focus on the issue likely isn't going to help with the mental pressure and his form is not going to get better enough to make a significant difference. Even if Devin somehow jumped from 55% to 80% from the line we are only looking at around 2 points a game.

I'd rather him spend that time battling with Dre, Moore, and JC in practice or learning how to pass out of a double team. He's more likely to find 2 extra points for his team in those areas than he is at the free throw line.
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There's a lot more between having a good swing and getting onto the PGA tour. But I bet that with an improved swing/grip, you add some more control and distance to your shots, which would decrease your strokes per hole. Much like being a decent free throw shooter doesn't make one a NBA player. For being full of shit or not a good coach, there are somehow numerous free throw coaches, who have good results and get paid nice money by high school, college, and NBA teams. Rajon Rondo is one example of this. No clue how he is doing now but he used to suck, then spent time with a "free throw guru" and started shooting much better.

While free throw shooting does require some time for practice, it more requires having proper form and a proper approach, which can be quick depending on how long it takes to absorb the new approach. Otherwise, you'll be spending hours upon hours in the gym simply reinforcing your bad habits which won't help anything.

I've been fortunate to speak with a few successful former coaches and they would each agree that improving free throw shooting is not some impossible task that some make it out to be.

Some issues with Devin's free throws:
1. Low arc - less arc means a lower chance of making it. The hoop is big enough to fit two basketballs at the same time, lowering the arc greatly decreases the hoop area
2. Wanders after the shot - rather than stay in place, he moves, which often results in an improper follow-through and bad spin on the ball
3. Low backspin on the shot - backspin helps soften a shot so when the ball hits the hoop, it doesn't go bouncing off but gives it a chance to fall in

Devin is not that big to have DeAndre Jordan hands, where his hands are simply too big to be that good at free throw shooting.
 
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RChildress107 said:
Those 24 hours are pretty jam-packed for a student athlete. .
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I realize this (all these things), of course, but was not 'arguing' the point that surely he is a busy young man. Simply stated, he has 24 hours a day, and what he does with those is his prerogative, but IMO, if the desire is really there, then he can improve, and make the time to do it...if it's that important.

But I think we could find some instances where players have made made significant strides in FT% in a year's time (I'm sure cumulative experience plays a role, but to what degree?). We can find some reversals, too. Did Ish not regress more than progress as his tenure wore on?

Where's the coaching on the FT's? Is he so habituated that it's an lasting impediment?
 
RChildress107 said:
I've got a "passable" golf swing. But I could spend every day for the next year tweaking it and I still wouldn't be on tour. Devin can certainly shoot better than 36% (over the last two games) from the line and I agree that the drop from around 60% to <40% is likely mental or fatigue related.

Any coach who thinks they can spend one afternoon with a guy and get him above 70% from the line is either bullshitting or not a very good coach.

It would be a waste of Devin's time to spend a ton of time on free throws. Putting an inordinate amount of focus on the issue likely isn't going to help with the mental pressure and his form is not going to get better enough to make a significant difference. Even if Devin somehow jumped from 55% to 80% from the line we are only looking at around 2 points a game.

I'd rather him spend that time battling with Dre, Moore, and JC in practice or learning how to pass out of a double team. He's more likely to find 2 extra points for his team in those areas than he is at the free throw line.
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Devin's FT shooting form is bizarre. His arm is crooked rather than forming a perpendicular line. That said, he was pretty good earlier in the season with similar form but has fallen into a funk. Likely mental and I also think his arm has become even more crooked.
 
It's almost as if random variation is a thing.
 
Howard went from bad to great (80%+) between his jr. and sr. year, FWIW.
 
MichDeac25 said:
Devin's FT shooting form is bizarre. His arm is crooked rather than forming a perpendicular line. That said, he was pretty good earlier in the season with similar form but has fallen into a funk. Likely mental and I also think his arm has become even more crooked.
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It's his form. As long as he maintains his present form he will always be susceptible to slumps at the line. The difficulty changing form is that it feels awkward shooting with proper form. No muscle memory. Frequently, sore forearm and hand muscles result from repeating proper form during practice. If improved results don't occur quickly, the project is abandoned or modified. It can be tough to continue a task if your brain and your body are saying no.
 
it's a testament to his athletic ability that he can even make half with that pathetic shooting form
 
If he went to the Bob Cousy/Wilt Chamberlain underhand scoop shot he would hit at least 65%
 
RChildress107 said:
I'd rather him spend that time battling with Dre, Moore, and JC in practice or learning how to pass out of a double team. He's more likely to find 2 extra points for his team in those areas than he is at the free throw line.
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That may have just been a throw away line, but you do know Devin is 2nd on the team with 24 assists. He's one of the better post players in the country in terms of finding his teammates. You likely are generally making a valid overall argument in that his time may be better spent on other facets of the game, but to say he needs work passing out of a double team seems like a bit of a slight on one of the better parts of his game.
 
WFU coaches have had 4 years to correct DT's shooting technique. Same with CMM. I don't understand the lack of improvement. I'll have to admit that CMM has looked a little better in the limited amount of shots he has taken so far this year. Ish Smith never improved at WFU either but his shot looks much better now. It appears that a shot doctor has worked with him.
 
I agree with the poster above who said that taking a ton of practice shots won't help DT. He just keeps perfecting the bad technique. It's like golf. If you aren't working on the right things, you just get worse.
 
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