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US federal judge rules NSA phone program likely unconstitutional

Every government is spying on every other government. That's just plain simple fact. And every government knows this. Now, spying on private individuals, who have not been suspected of or accused of any crimes is an entirely different matter. The former is unavoidable, the latter should be ended immediately. How? I don't think anybody knows exactly how. Nevertheless, destroying the existing data and making future spying subject to far greater judicial scrutiny and oversight might be a good start.
 
We harmed ourselves diplomatically when we started spying on our allies. it was not Snowdens revelation that harmed us diplomatically it was our action. Snowden just revealed who we are.

What? Somebody needs to read more periodicals.
 
Except that this isn't new and allies have been spying on each other since the dawn of man.

Agree but it's not snowdens fault. He just revealed who we are. We are who we are.
 
Again, more reading of printed publications. Start there. Please.
 
Agree but it's not snowdens fault. He just revealed who we are. We are who we are.

Who we are is who everyone is. What he revealed was methodology and breadth which puts us at a disadvantage versus those who spy on us.

But to Wrangor and others on the right, it's Obama and not SOP.
 
If only I had access to more periodicals! What great advice.

In your case I think it's excellent advice. Sometimes you can get really great deals on The Economist. Like $50 for a year's subscription. I'd start there.
 
There is no question in my mind that snowden is a traitor. He could have raised awareness without compromising US secrets.
 
The laws need to be changed to fix that. But Snowden did assist our enemies.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing this play out in court. It really is pretty fascinating from a technical standpoint.

For example, you're looking at Gmail. And you're reading an email from your mistress and she's talking about your burning penis sickness. Then up pops some advertisement for some burning penis sickness cream. And you're like, fuck, that's kinda creepy, but gimme dat cream. You wonder... Hmmm, I don't know how cool it is that Google has my burning penis illness info or my mistress secret when they have so many employees. But fuck it, this cream is money it just saved my dick, so I'm cool with it.

Yeah, you signed up for Google and yeah, you agreed to some terms or whatever. But in those terms I don't see where Google has the right to call your wife and tell her of your activities. And even if it was fun to read about you, there's some tech in there to make the data anonymous and prevent workers from getting their jollies by reading about your exploits.

So the government needs to figure out if someone's going to blow up the white house. Or it happens, and they need to reconstruct how the hell it happened. And they're like, shit, wouldn't it be nice to collect a whole fuckload of info to track the internet age of terrorism. But they collect so much info, and so much of it is encrypted, gibberish, worthless, redundant etc., that on the whole it's pretty much useless. It's kind of like every black box on every airplane combined for every flight in the past 10 years. Did Steve bang a stewardess in the bathroom on flight #285 on June 10th 2007? Who the hell knows. Sure, every company and their mother is going to tell you that you can data mine the hell out of this giant blob of information and find out useful things, but unless you know what you're looking for, at best maybe you can identify trends. And maybe that has some value.

But where it's really valuable is when Mark does something really bad, and suddenly we're green light to investigate Mark, and his data lives somewhere and you can get at it. Maybe he sent an email to 3 more buddies that sounded suspicious. Maybe he told his family what he was up to. Maybe he has a following of psychos.

You could definitely argue this collection of essentially anonymous data - outside of the normal spy stuff of tapping foreign leader's phones or whatever - is legal as long as you use technology to protect the data prior to legal justification. I know this is the goal for some of these programs, and it's a big part of why I take issue with Snowden's attempt to paint a 1984 picture here. But in general it's just really interesting to see how outraged people are when all that's really changed is the context for your information being available to an entity, or the idea that the entity is a company instead of a government.

Anyway, should be a fun argument to make.
 
When a judge makes a ruling that something is "likely," isn't that like demanding someone "should" buy you a beer?

The ruling here is couched in those terms because the court was ruling on Plaintiff's motion for a preliminary injunction to stop the NSA surveillance. One of the factors that the Court must find in allowing such a motion is "likelihood of success on the merits." In other words, the Court found that it is "likely" that plaintiff will succeed on its claim that the NSA program violates the 4th Amendment. The ultimate question of whether the NSA program violates the 4th Amendment was not before the court at this stage.
 
when all that's really changed is the context for your information being available to an entity, or the idea that the entity is a company instead of a government.

That's the crux of the issue though. I'm not sure how you can say "all that's really changed." 1) Google has a right to the data because you gave it to them. 2) Google can't lock you up, keep you from flying or leaving the country, withhold your pay, take your kids, etc, etc.

The ability for Google to use the data you've given them to offer you an advertisement for penis cream is in no way similar to the ability of the government to track your movements, your communications and your purchases, among other things, to establish probable cause against you rather than the other way around. The 4th Amendment is meant to protect US from the GOVERNMENT. There's nothing more critical than the fact that it's the government that has decided to access this privately held data by illegal means behind closed door court rulings and unchecked interpretations of law. It's the very center of the issue. I don't know you it can be brushed off as if it's not much different than penis cream advertisements.
 
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We should offer asylum to one person from each country who is willing to pull a Snowden on their homeland. First come first served. A million bucks, citizenship, a job, immunity, and witness protection.

And not to Snowden.
 
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