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US News 2024 Rankings (Wake #47)

Louis Gossett Jr said:
Wake should have told them to go fuck themselves like Columbia did. Can’t do it after the fact and you dropped in rankings but when they announced the changes they should have noped right out of there.
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Believe the law schools did this en masse to US news last year (Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Georgetown). Those demands focused on giving more weight to cost of attendance figures. Essentially the changes US news implemented here. State schools and massive endowments won. Places like Princeton can fund nearly their entire operating budget from endowment-charging tuition is essentially optional.
 
I do think there is a chance USNWR is overplaying their hand here and it will result in a significant withdrawal of participation among schools previously ranked in the top whatever

similar to how I think the NCAA may be at risk to having schools organize a massive walkout if they try any heavy-handedness toward football revenue


no comment on the ethics of either, just an observation
 
Atlanta Deacon said:
1st Gen student from a low income household gets into Wake and Rutgers. Are they better off graduating from Wake with $150,000 in debt or Rutgers with none? Fair question.

Student that's family can afford to pay $90,000 per year to send their kid to Wake gets into Wake and Rutgers. Are they better off graduation from Wake or Rutgers? Easy answer.

Does either of these make one school better a better college than the other? Absolutely no.
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I feel this one. I'm the first person in my family to go to college and Wake vs. Rutgers was a decision on the table. I was very fortunate that my parents were in a position to pay for school regardless of the choice. My parents were definitely pushing for Wake because neither of them went to college and the "prestige" part mattered a lot to them.

I will say, in my case, Wake was a safer choice than Rutgers. Rutgers is a really solid university and of course there's the chance my outcomes would have been similar. There is an advantage to having parents who went to college in that they're able to provide better guidance on how to leverage the opportunities in front of you, but, in my case, we were all kind of figuring out college together. For me, Wake provided guardrails I wouldn't have had at Rutgers.

Fully acknowledging how fortunate I was/am that my parents were able to pay for Wake which definitely changes the calculus on this.
 
One thing that isn't being mentioned here is that state schools do a WAY better job of supporting students with academic help and other services than they did 20 years ago, which has to contribute to better outcomes for the throngs of students they enroll.
 
I was the first person in my family to go to college, and basically went through the application and fafsa process on my own. My mom and step dad lived in a different state at the time and I didn’t speak with them very often. I remember getting a lot of feedback on how far a Wake Forest degree would take me in North Carolina, and the admissions process was need blind at the time. I was assured my first year that nearly all my attendance costs would be covered by grants or subsidized loans. My first year I think 70% of my attendance cost was covered with grants and scholarships, by my 4th year it was closer to 30-35%. The only real professional advice I ever received was not to pursue an education degree at Wake because teaching didn’t pay. I don’t think I ever talked to anyone about the professional avenues for a Psych degree.
 
Biff Ochocinco Tannen said:
One thing that isn't being mentioned here is that state schools do a WAY better job of supporting students with academic help and other services than they did 20 years ago, which has to contribute to better outcomes for the throngs of students they enroll.
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This is very true. From when I was teaching I had one student go to Michigan and a small handful end up at Michigan State. These kids were from what was probably the worst high school in Detroit, which definitely puts it high up on the list of worst high schools in the country.

All of these kids were very, very bright but were not prepared for college-level content day one. Both Michigan and MSU provided them a ton of support and remediation to get them up to speed because they knew they had the goods to do well with the extra support. These kids probably would have flunked out of most private schools in the first semester despite having the raw intelligence to succeed.
 
Esteban said:
Believe the law schools did this en masse to US news last year (Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Columbia, Georgetown). Those demands focused on giving more weight to cost of attendance figures. Essentially the changes US news implemented here. State schools and massive endowments won. Places like Princeton can fund nearly their entire operating budget from endowment-charging tuition is essentially optional.
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While there was a big uproar over the methodology and a lot of schools pulled out from providing data (so US News went to using only publicly available data), it wasn’t about cost of attendance. The revised law school methodology has virtually no cost of attendance factors. The big change is focus on outcomes - 60% is job placement 10 month after graduation, first time bar passage rate, and ultimate bar passage rate. Peer assessment and judges/lawyers prestige are down to 25% from 40%. These changes are the reason Wake shot up to 22 this year. If cost of attendance was the focus, Wake would have remained static or had a drop.
ETA: For a professional school, I think focusing on outcomes is a better measure than for undergrads, but I also think debt to income ratio would be an important component (but I assume is not something that is readily available from public sources). It’s all well and good if you passed the bar on your first try and have a job 10 months after graduation, but if you took out $200k in loans to get a job that pays $45k, that’s not a good outcome.
 
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The primary beneficiary our our family’s charitable giving is the scholarship program my wife was part of to attend UF that is geared specifically to first generation college students.

It also provides funds for a variety of other program activities like etiquette classes, study abroad, interview preparation and tries to give those students a full college experience. It allowed my wife to graduate UF debt free.

I recently learned that Wake has a similar program called the Magnolia Scholars. It’s been around for 14 years. I had no idea it existed. Wake does a horrible job of marketing the program. I’m certain that there are wealthy first generation alumni that would find that program a worthy charitable cause and help support it.

That’s the type of fundraising the school should be focusing on in order to increase access.
 
DeaconCav06 said:
The primary beneficiary our our family’s charitable giving is the scholarship program my wife was part of to attend UF that is geared specifically to first generation college students.

It also provides funds for a variety of other program activities like etiquette classes, study abroad, interview preparation and tries to give those students a full college experience. It allowed my wife to graduate UF debt free.

I recently learned that Wake has a similar program called the Magnolia Scholars. It’s been around for 14 years. I had no idea it existed. Wake does a horrible job of marketing the program. I’m certain that there are wealthy first generation alumni that would find that program a worthy charitable cause and help support it.

That’s the type of fundraising the school should be focusing on in order to increase access.
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You're right that Wake does a terrible job in marketing this.

I did some research into the program a few years back because I wanted to redirect donation money there and it seemed like a good idea being a first gen college grad and all. I really, really do not like that the program is limited to a handful of students in each class. Limiting scholarships is whatever, this money is finite. But the services being provided should be available to all first gen students at Wake and it's disgusting to me that they're not. This isn't an indictment on the program or its staff because I'm sure they do great work. It's more on Wake for not investing more in this in the first place.
 
What’s Wake done with all the massively increased tuition money in the past 20-30 years or so anyway?
 
Frosty said:
You're right that Wake does a terrible job in marketing this.

I did some research into the program a few years back because I wanted to redirect donation money there and it seemed like a good idea being a first gen college grad and all. I really, really do not like that the program is limited to a handful of students in each class. Limiting scholarships is whatever, this money is finite. But the services being provided should be available to all first gen students at Wake and it's disgusting to me that they're not. This isn't an indictment on the program or its staff because I'm sure they do great work. It's more on Wake for not investing more in this in the first place.
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UF’s program expanded massively under former President Machen which fueled very rapid growth.
 
06deacon said:
What’s Wake done with all the massively increased tuition money in the past 20-30 years or so anyway?
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seems like a healthy amount of it goes toward new administrators

i'd be curious how expanded administration trickles down to the student academic and social experience
 
clicking through some of the staff pages on wake's website and there are a dozen or so in the academic advising department

I don't remember ever engaging with that department

we were assigned an advisor as a freshman and they were a professor and we had to meet with them and I remember it being not a helpful thing for me
 
JuiceCrewAllStar said:
seems like a healthy amount of it goes toward new administrators

i'd be curious how expanded administration trickles down to the student academic and social experience
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Idk how many new administrators there are over that timeframe but seems like the tuition increases alone from like one freshman dorm could pay for that.

Maybe it’s as simple as throwing it at the endowment but that’d be a pretty lame reason.
 
Well, it has been 48 years since I graduated but I still want my money back!
 
My rudimentary understanding is that the University’s expenses can’t exceed it’s revenue + interest accrued from its endowment. Of course the actual budget is far more complicated than that - they borrow money and repay it, etc., but the endowment fund itself is never spent, only invested, and it’s pretty well known that Wakes endowment investments took a bath in the past 20 years.
 
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