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US News 2024 Rankings (Wake #47)

They would if it was reliable enough for comparisons across the board.
 
Since Columbia, of all schools, was caught cheating on self-reported data by its own professor, perhaps USN&WR has decided that self-reported data is not reliable.
 
wakelaw13 said:
It's absolutely ridiculous that people care so much about rankings produced by US News.

Also, where you go to school matters when it comes to getting your first job. After that, it's about what you can do.
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I think most of us are ignoring the power of the USNWR brand.

I was unexpectedly laid off last year (13yrs into a career) and I found a new job in the same pay range in a new industry in 5 weeks. In my first meeting with my boss I asked a question and he said: “This is why I hired you, I knew you were smart.” Occasionally, when he concedes an argument, he makes a joke that he didn’t “go to a top 30 school like Wake Forest.” (As a side note, my work experience is with corporations, which I assume are less rankings and prestige focused than places like academia, Big 4 accounting firms, consulting firms and law firms.)

Do I think he will concede less arguments because Wake fell to #47? Of course not. Do I think he would have hired me if Wake fell to #47 last year? Probably. Do I think USNWR should be relied upon as a single data point for any meaningful decision-making? No. The point I am trying to make is even though I believe it is to a lesser degree, I do believe USNWR matters beyond grad schools and/or first job out of school, and USNWR will continue to matter because of its strong brand. Leaders (like my boss) who have kids looking at colleges are very familiar with USNWR. Unless another ranking dethrones it, USNWR is king. One of the main things I have learned from working at corporations, other than stifling bureaucracy, is the power of brands.

Wake will see how strong the USNWR brand is when (not if) applications decline. Buckets said it best - It is tough for applicants to imagine paying Wake's current tuition for a degree in this new ranking zone.
 
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PhDeac said:
What do you mean by a well-rounded education?
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First and most important, broad-based liberal arts curriculum with course requirements covering a big range of disciplines.
Small class sizes with more, and more intensive, interactions with profs.
Immersion in small-school culture of high-achieving students, all of whom are well-prepped for college and motivating each other to think critically.
Strong focus on teacher quality versus research output.

You will get some, but not all of that, at the big state schools. I haven't taken a course at Wake in more than twenty years but if they're still aspiring to hire high quality teachers that matters a lot. My wife is a prof at a fairly large public univ in the midwest and the level of dysfunction is crazy. Some very talented faculty but others who are marginally qualified and not held to appropriate professional standards for teaching/service/publications, etc. There are obvious differences in how much (or how little) students learn from these profs versus others.
 
Yeah I think it’s also a bit short sighted to gloss over the impact it’ll have on “getting your first job.” It’s easy to say “a good recruiting process shouldn’t be relying on rankings” but they probably do as those processes by and large have to weed through a large stack of resumes and pick schools to recruit from. The ranking drop, combined with the traditionally deflated Wake GPAs, will certainly not help there.

No skin in the game anymore for me, Wake could turn into high point and it likely wouldn’t affect my life, but it was already a <10% chance I’d encourage my kids to consider Wake
 
06deacon said:
Yeah I think it’s also a bit short sighted to gloss over the impact it’ll have on “getting your first job.” It’s easy to say “a good recruiting process shouldn’t be relying on rankings” but they probably do as those processes by and large have to weed through a large stack of resumes and pick schools to recruit from. The ranking drop, combined with the traditionally deflated Wake GPAs, will certainly not help there.

No skin in the game anymore for me, Wake could turn into high point and it likely wouldn’t affect my life, but it was already a <10% chance I’d encourage my kids to consider Wake
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+1
 
inspectah_ said:
First and most important, broad-based liberal arts curriculum with course requirements covering a big range of disciplines.
Small class sizes with more, and more intensive, interactions with profs.
Immersion in small-school culture of high-achieving students, all of whom are well-prepped for college and motivating each other to think critically.
Strong focus on teacher quality versus research output.

You will get some, but not all of that, at the big state schools. I haven't taken a course at Wake in more than twenty years but if they're still aspiring to hire high quality teachers that matters a lot. My wife is a prof at a fairly large public univ in the midwest and the level of dysfunction is crazy. Some very talented faculty but others who are marginally qualified and not held to appropriate professional standards for teaching/service/publications, etc. There are obvious differences in how much (or how little) students learn from these profs versus others.
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Point by point:
That is certainly a strong liberal arts foundation. But big public schools have required courses as well. They also have a broader range of course offerings than Wake.

Small class sizes don’t necessarily equal intensive interactions. Also big public schools have some small class sizes too. As I’ve said before the class cap for my big public school lower level courses (49-55) isn’t that much more than than the classes I took at Wake (30–35).

There are plenty of motivated, well-prepped students at big public schools and plenty of unmotivated, unprepared students at Wake. This just seems elitist.

It’s not teaching or research. It’s balancing teaching and research. Some profs are good at both. Some profs are good at neither anymore. Some profs do one. Wake could certainly bolster research without sacrificing teaching. And there are plenty of great teachers at big public schools.
 
It may not matter in reality but if it didn't matter in practice, WFU wouldn't advertise being a top-30 school for X consecutive years
 
PhDeac said:
Point by point:
That is certainly a strong liberal arts foundation. But big public schools have required courses as well. They also have a broader range of course offerings than Wake.

Small class sizes don’t necessarily equal intensive interactions. Also big public schools have some small class sizes too. As I’ve said before the class cap for my big public school lower level courses (49-55) isn’t that much more than than the classes I took at Wake (30–35).

There are plenty of motivated, well-prepped students at big public schools and plenty of unmotivated, unprepared students at Wake. This just seems elitist.

It’s not teaching or research. It’s balancing teaching and research. Some profs are good at both. Some profs are good at neither anymore. Some profs do one. Wake could certainly bolster research without sacrificing teaching. And there are plenty of great teachers at big public schools.
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60% of classes at Wake have fewer than 20 students. 1% of classes have more than 50 students.
 
RedSoxFaithful said:
49-55 is also a much larger (literally a >60% increase) class cap than 30-35
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But not much difference in class experience being one of the 30 vs one of 49.
 
What’s the difference?
 
Class size is a help to some kids but not all kids will care about that. My daughter goes to a large state school and her upper level classes in her major are all small classes. Having small classes for liberal arts core classes like history and philosophy is nice but it isn't going to have a huge affect on anyone's college experience. Wake seems to think their education is somehow better than other schools based on things like class size but the world is moving toward actual data. There is nothing wrong with sticking to your beliefs if you are wake but USNWR has tons of weight with high school families. Pretending it doesn't is silly. I don't live in the south anymore and the one thing I would say about a Wake degree is that it doesn't have the clout in other states that it may have in NC/SC. And this isn't going to help. I also see the value of larger Alumni bases over small class sizes for my kids. I like Wake as much as the next alumni but no way I would want my kid to go to Wake over a solid state school even if tuition was the same. And I certainly wouldn't pay double or triple for a Wake education.
 
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