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VOTE AGAINST

Shorty said:
It makes me furious when pastors talk politics from the pulpit. I would directly confront our pastor were he to do that. Even worse, a Baptist church near me actually had Newt Gingrich speak to the congregation during a Sunday morning worship service earlier this year. There is simply no place for any of that during worship.
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Don't you love the freedom to go to a different church? When they preach politics in the government schools you and your kids are stuck, unless of course, you are rich enough to afford private school.
 
DreamOnDemOn said:
Don't you love the freedom to go to a different church? When they preach politics in the government schools you and your kids are stuck, unless of course, you are rich enough to afford private school.
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Between me, my wife, and our two kids, we've had over thirty years of public schools and I cannot recall a single instance in which partisan politics was preached. If anything, given the growth of litigious attitudes, there is less impetus for teachers to do so.
 
Shorty said:
It makes me furious when pastors talk politics from the pulpit. I would directly confront our pastor were he to do that. Even worse, a Baptist church near me actually had Newt Gingrich speak to the congregation during a Sunday morning worship service earlier this year. There is simply no place for any of that during worship.
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Many pastors have become little more than talk radio guys without the radio. Give them an audience and the perceived power of a microphone, and they'll push their own agenda at every opportunity. Church has become more a place of propaganda than one of worship.
 
Shorty said:
It makes me furious when pastors talk politics from the pulpit. I would directly confront our pastor were he to do that. Even worse, a Baptist church near me actually had Newt Gingrich speak to the congregation during a Sunday morning worship service earlier this year. There is simply no place for any of that during worship.
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Knollwood Baptist turned into this the last 10 years but thank god the minister left.
 
DreamOnDemOn said:
Don't you love the freedom to go to a different church? When they preach politics in the government schools you and your kids are stuck, unless of course, you are rich enough to afford private school.
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I was in public school for my entire education until Wake and not once do I remember an instance where politics were preached in school
 
In all honesty I think if we just posted this thread around and made everyone that was going to vote read it, I don't see how anyone would still vote for the amendment unless they were just bigoted.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
In all honesty I think if we just posted this thread around and made everyone that was going to vote read it, I don't see how anyone would still vote for the amendment unless they were just bigoted.
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This is assuming your average small town North Carolinian could process and comprehend everything in this thread. Being originally from small town NC, I can tell you the uneducated masses have made up their minds. It is incredibly difficult to those types of people to give up their prejudices. Sadly, a huge chunk of these uneducated people will vote yes because they fear they'll be going against God no matter what if they punch no.
 
RChildress107 said:
I've been away from this thread for a while due to work. I do think this recent conversation however raises a few questions which get back to the original discussion.

I don't want to focus on this sermon or pastor. What he said is despicable and harmful to children in that congregation. There's really not much more to be said on that.

I do however want to talk about gender roles. Specifically how society and families do or should define gender and how those definitions do or should relate to marriage.

I pose the following questions not necessarily having answers to any of them but more for the sake of discussion.

1. Should parents be proactive in guiding or holding their children to certain gender roles? Is it actually possible for parents to avoid influencing how their children adapt to gender roles?

2. Gender roles are clearly less rigid than they were fifty years ago. We have moved away from the idea that women must stay at home and be caretakers while men must be breadwinners for the family and remain emotionally distant from their families. However gender is still important in society today. We still have separate restrooms, gender separated sports and separate housing in schools. How do/should we as a society define what aspects of gender are important and which ones are "antiquated"?

3. To me the real debate surrounding marriage is a gender debate and not a sexual orientation debate. Marriage laws as written do not directly discriminate according to sexual orientation, they directly discriminate according to gender. The practical result is that the couples who want to get married but cannot are homosexual. Gender roles have historically been a significant part of the definition of marriage.

For those who believe all couples should be able to get married regardless of gender is this because you believe gender has no place in marriage or because gender roles have no place in society?
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Very good provocative questions...

It's hard to answer these on my iPhone so I will attempt to answer one by one (so I can see what I'm posting)
1) Gender rolls in children - I do no believe in forcing a gender roll on my son but rather helping him in establishing who he is. I try to provide a good roll model for him but give him latitude in discovering who he is. I can already tell you that the boy is straight (and yes I think you can tell at even an early age) and being reared to be a gentleman in all that he does. A lot of things come naturally for him that reinforces his self identity and I feel that as a parent, it's my responsibility to nurture him in his development. I do not believe that not fitting into a preconceived notion of what a person is supposed to be in attributes is healthy (if I stated that correctly?) I do believe that nurturing my son to be the best that he can be no matter what, is healthy.
 
10 Reasons Why Gay Marriage is Wrong

01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.
...
03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet.

07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours,the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.
 
#2) there are a lot of gender ideas in society that are antiquated such as separate restrooms that I do believe are silly. The idea that a man can not control himself around a woman during a moment when one or the other is using the facility is jus crazy. I would simply point out that there are not segregated restrooms in homes...on other areas like sports, I would argue that it is so that there is not a competitive advantage in size and strength at a time when it is being focused on. The one thing that just popped into my head was the transsexual from Canada that, even after winning the Miss Canada contest, had controversy over being able to represent her nation in the Miss Universe pageant. What is the big deal - she won the right to be there and if you feel someone else is prettier, vote for them..
 
#3) I disagree with this in that sex and intamcy is vital and required to consummate the marriage and keep it going. Can I marry a woman who knows that I am not attracted to her sexually and believe that it's going to work? If she is a foreign national, the INS is immediately going to claim, and rightfully so, that it's invalid and a sham.
 
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She acknowledged using the word "caucasian." Let's speculate on what she could have said that wasn't race based

"man, I can't wait until my vacation to Eastern Europe to meet some Caucasians"
 
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