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Wake and A D

D

DeacAssured

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From a win/loss perspective, two good hires in football out of two. Two bad hires (Gaudio because he fired him, Buzdelik because he was not up to the task) one good hire (Prosser) and one hire under heavy scrutiny out of four. I rate this at 50 on a 100 scale in terms of hires. However, if the standard is revenue generation I rate the performance above 80 out of 100. Given the limited departmental resources prior to the current tenure of this AD, the AD is clearly successful financially.

1. Is Wake comfortable with this level of performance in acquisition of head coaches for revenue producing sports?
2. Why have the hires been better in football than basketball?
3. Has Wake worked harder to achieve success in football with new revenue streams and taken basketball revenue for granted?
4. How many programs consistently experience substantial success in both revenue producing sports?

Please weigh in on these questions designed to bring structure to the critique of the performance of Wake and its AD in the basketball program.

Finally, what are the odds that DM is successful at Wake ultimately?
 
Our country club sports are among the elite. The football hires have been tremendous. We have outstanding helmsmen at soccer and baseball. Manning has been shaky but his work with big men is without compare and will, given time, prove to be a huge (no pun intended) asset and result in consistent top 25 program. Our facilities are 1000% improved from what Ron inherited. Outside of allowing Grobe to stagnate a bit (and frankly, he earned the right to stagnate), and the [Redacted] hire, Wellman has been a damn good AD. The boards consensus otherwise is lazy and ill-informed. Carry on.
 
Dillon Fence said:
Our country club sports are among the elite. The football hires have been tremendous. We have outstanding helmsmen at soccer and baseball. Manning has been shaky but his work with big men is without compare and will, given time, prove to be a huge (no pun intended) asset and result in consistent top 25 program. Our facilities are 1000% improved from what Ron inherited. Outside of allowing Grobe to stagnate a bit (and frankly, he earned the right to stagnate), and the [Redacted] hire, Wellman has been a damn good AD. The boards consensus otherwise is lazy and ill-informed. Carry on.
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People aren’t ill-informed about non-revenue sports, they just don’t care. I don’t think Wellman even takes point on hiring coaches for those sports; I believe Barbara Walker does (might just be the women’s side though). But, then the buzz on the board is that Buddie had point on the Clawson hire.

Wellman is 2 out of 3 in football and 1 out of 3 in basketball (excluding Dino due to circumstances). Compared to other ADs, that’s probably okay but certainly not damn good. And, yes, with two hugely disappointing seasons, Manning falls in the negative column. He is an elite big man coach, but that makes him a good assistant, not a good head coach. Do most head coaches even lead a position group?
 
Wellman does not care about any Wake fans or alumni except those that give him lots of money. He not only does not care, he behaves obnoxiously toward them. Under the circumstances no one cares about Wellman, beyond his immediate removal.
 
sailordeac said:
Wellman does not care about any Wake fans or alumni except those that give him lots of money. He not only does not care, he behaves obnoxiously toward them. Under the circumstances no one cares about Wellman, beyond his immediate removal.
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Exactly. This is the attitude and culture Hatch has brought to WF. Hatch has made Wellman much worse. They both need to go.
 
Dillon Fence said:
Our country club sports are among the elite. The football hires have been tremendous. We have outstanding helmsmen at soccer and baseball. Manning has been shaky but his work with big men is without compare and will, given time, prove to be a huge (no pun intended) asset and result in consistent top 25 program. Our facilities are 1000% improved from what Ron inherited. Outside of allowing Grobe to stagnate a bit (and frankly, he earned the right to stagnate), and the [name redacted] hire, Wellman has been a damn good AD. The boards consensus otherwise is lazy and ill-informed. Carry on.
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There's some truth here, but Wellman doesn't escape blame for so badly mishandling the men's basketball situation. That's been our premier sport historically and it's flatlining and has been for years.

We will not be a top 25 program consistently under Manning. Sorry, but that's pretty plain at this point. His record is nearly identical to [Redacted]'s. Last year (which wasn't exactly a lights out year anyway) looks more and more like an aberration.

Grobe "earned the right to stagnate?" WTH? I'm sure the DC members will be pleased to know their dollars support "earned" stagnation.

Wellman's legacy would be very different if he had better communication skills. His personality has never allowed him to connect well with fans. And at his pay grade, that's really not acceptable. Needs to be a point of emphasis when WF looks for his successor.
 
Dillon Fence said:
Our country club sports are among the elite. The football hires have been tremendous. We have outstanding helmsmen at soccer and baseball. Manning has been shaky but his work with big men is without compare and will, given time, prove to be a huge (no pun intended) asset and result in consistent top 25 program. Our facilities are 1000% improved from what Ron inherited. Outside of allowing Grobe to stagnate a bit (and frankly, he earned the right to stagnate), and the [Redacted] hire, Wellman has been a damn good AD. The boards consensus otherwise is lazy and ill-informed. Carry on.
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This is why Wake basketball sucks. When people not only accept, but praise incompetence why should anyone expect more.

There is only one sport that people care about and Wake has a chance to win nationally (it ain't football). This is why most people consider Wake a joke or their second favorite team (meaning you are never a threat).

Wake is such a strong academic institution populated by such brilliant people but continually makes bad choices. Makes you wonder.
 
People seem to have swept Casstevens under the rug as well.
 
I'd like to know when our vaunted, storied basketball program last came close to winning a national championship. We are farther away from such a goal in basketball than we are in football, and have been for a while (although the odds are strongly tilted against that in both sports anyway -- and this is true of the majority of college programs).
 
Lohengrin said:
I'd like to know when our vaunted, storied basketball program last came close to winning a national championship. We are farther away from such a goal in basketball than we are in football, and have been for a while (although the odds are strongly tilted against that in both sports anyway -- and this is true of the majority of college programs).
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Wake has had teams with enough talent to win in basketball. Wake beat eventual national champions year in and year out before Wellman burned down the program.

Wake can be good in football but I don't see a day where Wake will have the talent and depth to win a football championship.
 
I'm in with Knowell as to why Wake basketball sucks...expectations have fallen so hard we start using words like "elite" to discuss our basketball coach who has 4 years to get this thing turned around and is 1 win better than our previous coach (before the hate starts just let me say if my choice is DM or Bizz I take DM 10 out of 10 times).

My take as to whats DM done and not done:
- In year 4 not one win over Duke or UNC...to most Wake fans thats a big deal...Staak and Bizz were able to do this
- He's a good developer of big men...not elite. You can google the list of coaches who are elite at this
- As mentioned on another thread Keats who is coaching a team thats leftover from a fired coach and who lost their elite player to the NBA has more ACC away wins in year 1 than DM will have in year 4 and probably go to the dance
- DM is a good recruiter but you can't be a great recruiter until you start winning some effing games. Tacy, Skip and especially GDO were much better recruiters than DM...not even close
- I was at the game yesterday and was just blown away by the total lack of energy in the building. Team shows no emotion during warm ups or intros; crowd not really into it and I dont thing anyone who was there after 5 minutes ever beloved we'd win the game. Its pretty sad when the loudest the Joel gets is for a effing chic filet miss free throw. When I say louder at least twice as loud as any other moment in the game. My God we were playing NC State and we just came out with nothing and gave up 90 to a team that really didn't play that well.

For those whom expect next year's freshman to come in and move us from 13th in the conference to top 6 are absolutely delusional. Wake basketball is in the worst shape in the history of our program because its been going on now for 8 years. We now have 2 types of fans...those who have lowered their expectations to the point where they believe a rebuild takes 5 or 6 years when there are coaches all over the country who fix thongs in 3 years or less. The other group of fans of which I'm a part of no longer care if we win or lose a game. This type fan is the most dangerous to our program. I've been around a while...wins once were so great and losses were crushing. Thats the emotion I want to feel as a fan. I sat there yesterday with a few State fans and never even stood up. I'm tired of other team fans telling me shit like "Wake really showed a lot of heart today", I always pull for Wake...second favorite team. The best one is that DM is learning and if patient he's going to be a tough out someday.

I want to be the Childress/Duncan team that everyone hated.
 
Shake said:
For those whom expect next year's freshman to come in and move us from 13th in the conference to top 6 are absolutely delusional. Wake basketball is in the worst shape in the history of our program because its been going on now for 8 years. We now have 2 types of fans...those who have lowered their expectations to the point where they believe a rebuild takes 5 or 6 years when there are coaches all over the country who fix thongs in 3 years or less. The other group of fans of which I'm a part of no longer care if we win or lose a game. This type fan is the most dangerous to our program. I've been around a while...wins once were so great and losses were crushing. Thats the emotion I want to feel as a fan. I sat there yesterday with a few State fans and never even stood up. I'm tired of other team fans telling me shit like "Wake really showed a lot of heart today", I always pull for Wake...second favorite team. The best one is that DM is learning and if patient he's going to be a tough out someday.

I want to be the Childress/Duncan team that everyone hated.
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Great post. I'm most intrigued how one secures a job fixing thongs. Please PM me!
 
Shake said:
- He's a good developer of big men...not elite. You can google the list of coaches who are elite at this
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I have attempted to Google this with no luck. I would be positively shocked if there was such a list that Manning wasn't on (assuming it wasn't assistants only or something like that). This isn't based on lowered expectations or anything of the like, it's based on what he did before he even got to Wake, a trend that he only continued with Dinos, Collins, and Moore.

Like I said, that doesn't make him a good head coach.
 
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Shake said:
I'm in with Knowell as to why Wake basketball sucks...expectations have fallen so hard we start using words like "elite" to discuss our basketball coach who has 4 years to get this thing turned around and is 1 win better than our previous coach (before the hate starts just let me say if my choice is DM or Bizz I take DM 10 out of 10 times).

My take as to whats DM done and not done:
- In year 4 not one win over Duke or UNC...to most Wake fans thats a big deal...Staak and Bizz were able to do this
- He's a good developer of big men...not elite. You can google the list of coaches who are elite at this
- As mentioned on another thread Keats who is coaching a team thats leftover from a fired coach and who lost their elite player to the NBA has more ACC away wins in year 1 than DM will have in year 4 and probably go to the dance
- DM is a good recruiter but you can't be a great recruiter until you start winning some effing games. Tacy, Skip and especially GDO were much better recruiters than DM...not even close
- I was at the game yesterday and was just blown away by the total lack of energy in the building. Team shows no emotion during warm ups or intros; crowd not really into it and I dont thing anyone who was there after 5 minutes ever beloved we'd win the game. Its pretty sad when the loudest the Joel gets is for a effing chic filet miss free throw. When I say louder at least twice as loud as any other moment in the game. My God we were playing NC State and we just came out with nothing and gave up 90 to a team that really didn't play that well.

For those whom expect next year's freshman to come in and move us from 13th in the conference to top 6 are absolutely delusional. Wake basketball is in the worst shape in the history of our program because its been going on now for 8 years. We now have 2 types of fans...those who have lowered their expectations to the point where they believe a rebuild takes 5 or 6 years when there are coaches all over the country who fix thongs in 3 years or less. The other group of fans of which I'm a part of no longer care if we win or lose a game. This type fan is the most dangerous to our program. I've been around a while...wins once were so great and losses were crushing. Thats the emotion I want to feel as a fan. I sat there yesterday with a few State fans and never even stood up. I'm tired of other team fans telling me shit like "Wake really showed a lot of heart today", I always pull for Wake...second favorite team. The best one is that DM is learning and if patient he's going to be a tough out someday.

I want to be the Childress/Duncan team that everyone hated.
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That is the worst part about this whole situation ... we're closing in on 25 fucking years ago since then. Our current students weren't even close to being alive for that. It pisses me off during every telecast when they show the obligatory Childress highlights against Carolina. Wow, look at Wake, 20+ years ago they could win! Stop showing that shit, it just makes the situation worse. Our rivalries are dead and the bodies have gone completely cold. Other than a nut punch here and a Cleveland Steamer there, it has been almost 25 years since we have even been remotely relevant in our primary sport. 25 fucking years. Fuck you Ron Wellman, and I hope you burn in hell.
 
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