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Wake at BC GAME THREAD - Epic fail #BuzzOut

I'm not sure why it matters if CJ knew the count or not by the refs strokes. The strokes indicate what count the ref has. If he didn't do five strokes he can't call five seconds unless he's counting by some ridiculous standard.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I'm not sure why it matters if CJ knew the count or not by the refs strokes. The strokes indicate what count the ref has. If he didn't do five strokes he can't call five seconds unless he's counting by some ridiculous standard.
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Look up the rule, his arm is not the count.
 
I'm not saying by the literal rule that the strokes are the count, what I'm saying is how can the refs possibly have a count that differs from their strokes? It doesn't make any sense. If it's different then why do the strokes. As my reffing bosses always told me "if you're going to give strokes they better be right, if they're not don't do them".
 
Asked a friend who works with the NCAA (marketing) and has contacts with officiating. His response - "The "official" time is kept in the official standing at the inbound spot's head and he is not required to count out-loud or make gestures. The official's arm waving doesn't indicate the count but simply its tempo. Also, he may or may not give a full 5 hand signals as he might start the hand signals after the second second or cease after the fourth. There is no hard-fast rule that he has to signal anything and is done as a courtesy to the players. Also, refs will not traditionally give a timeout after four seconds - you either take the TO up until four seconds or you have five seconds to throw it in (believe the rule is still in existence but cannot substantiate)."
 
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Wakeforest22890 said:
I'm not saying by the literal rule that the strokes are the count, what I'm saying is how can the refs possibly have a count that differs from their strokes? It doesn't make any sense. If it's different then why do the strokes. As my reffing bosses always told me "if you're going to give strokes they better be right, if they're not don't do them".
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Based on the replay, from the time CJ got the ball in his hands to the last arm stroke, was 4.9 seconds, the ref called the violation at 6.3 seconds. Either way CJ had a full 5 seconds to get the ball in or call a TO, he called TO at 6.3 seconds, if he's counting in his head like he's supposed to that doesn't happen.

If the ref gave us less than 5 seconds to inbound we'd have a beef with the ref, but we had more than 5 seconds, I don't know what more can be said.
 
There's no doubt that the stroking was slow on the ref's behalf. It's just really, really dumb to have a physical motion that differs from what you have in your head.
 
IslandDeac said:
Asked a friend who works with the NCAA (marketing) and has contacts with officiating. His response - "The "official" time is kept in the official standing at the inbound spot's head and he is not required to count out-loud or make gestures. The official's arm waving doesn't indicate the count but simply its tempo. Also, he may or may not give a full 5 hand signals as he might start the hand signals after the second second or cease after the fourth. There is no hard-fast rule that he has to signal anything and is done as a courtesy to the players. Also, refs will not traditionally give a timeout after four seconds - you either take the TO up until four seconds or you have five seconds to throw it in (believe the rule is still in existence but cannot substantiate)."
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FWIW, I've read elsewhere, ie. from another game where a TO was called at 4.5 seconds and not granted, that the rule is not on the books. Doesn't really apply in this case anyway as CJ called TO after 5 seconds.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
There's no doubt that the stroking was slow on the ref's behalf. It's just really, really dumb to have a physical motion that differs from what you have in your head.
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What different does it make to the players, they are not looking at the ref, they are trying to find a player to pass it to.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Also I sat three rows behind the bench and [Redacted] hardly does anything during the game. He just paces around and yells ever now and then on offense when he throws up a fist or a number for a play, which the team most of the time doesn't really respond to.
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Thanks for confirming this. This feeds into the biggest argument for Buzz to be fired IMO; he does not inspire the players.
 
Deac83 said:
What different does it make to the players, they are not looking at the ref, they are trying to find a player to pass it to.
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I agree that CJ should have called timeout earlier. There's no contention there from me. It still looks really bad for a ref to have something that can be seen by everybody and then call it aside from the motion he is exhibiting. The motion is there so it is something everybody can see to make sure the ref isn't making up the count. You are correct in this case that he was right, but why the heck is he even motioning then?
 
i'm afraid the clock not starting plus the shady 5 second call is taking away from the biggest load of shit which was the foul on CMM at the end. that was a bailout simply cause they didn't get one against duke. such bullshit.
 
Latest MTOW: Harris, Deacons Slip and Fall http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wf...cle_c0795e3e-7651-11e2-8343-001a4bcf6878.html

Harris, one of the steadiest players in recent Wake basketball history, said he and his teammates will have to forget it by Saturday's home game against Georgia Tech.

It'll be a tall order. But maybe the memory of their last game against the Yellow Jackets in Atlanta -- were they fell apart in the first two minutes instead of the final two -- will provide whatever motivation they might need.

If nothing else, they'll be at home.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
The arena only seats like 8k how could it be 10k official attendance? There were MAYBE 3000 people there. It was the smallest crowd I've ever seen for an ACC game and I've been to roughly 150 of them.
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Well it's not like they were playing University of Vermont in hockey. They are a fickle fanbase. In the worst of times they just show up for the marquee games. They seem to not have the same enthusiasm about our big game as their Super Bowl, so this is what happens. Plus, they have no townie bandwagoners at all, even in the best of times.

I was there too. Believe it or not, this was a bigger crowd than last year's game, which happened in the middle of a snowstorm.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I'm not sure why it matters if CJ knew the count or not by the refs strokes. The strokes indicate what count the ref has. If he didn't do five strokes he can't call five seconds unless he's counting by some ridiculous standard.
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The 5 second hand motion was 5 count.
 
Good point by Dan that we haven't pointed out. Bz could have called the timeout.
 
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