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Wake - Clemson Game Thread

Bob, do you honestly think that Skip would be 1-15 when Teague, Johnson, Aminu, etc were on campus? Either yes or no please. You're smart enough to hypothesize.
 
You can't compare Wade and Bz. Bz took over a recent #1 team coming off two straight NCAA appearances. There was time to heal after Skip's death. The program was headed back and just needed a legit coach.

Wade was a high school coach taking over after Len Bias' death.
 
bobknightfan said:
I think Bz is a bad coach...but Skip was far from a good coach. As I've said over & over & over & over again.....Skip was a wonderful person...a wonderful human being who did a lot of wonderful things to ignite school spirit at Wake...and his premature death was tragic, but he was a mediocre coach...at best. Really good coaches win games when they don't have the most talent. Games they aren't supposed to win...like beating a 26-1 Arkansas team or a 24-2 DePaul team. None of Skip's teams ever did that. He got good players and won most of the games when he had better players....but never rose to the occasion of beating teams when coaching had to overcome superior talent.

And because I point out that obviously true fact, I get blasted.....because people here cannot separate Skip the man from Skip the coach. But that's your problem, not mine.
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That's just bullshit. Prosser repeatedly beat UNC and Duke when they had far more talented teams. He beat Maryland when they had more talent. He won at Wisconsin when they had arguably more talent and snapped a 50 some odd winning streak. He beat Marquette with Wade. Prosser wasn't Wooden, but don't give this garbage about not winning big games and beating more talented teams. It's not true
 
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bobknightfan said:
I think Bz is a bad coach...but Skip was far from a good coach. As I've said over & over & over & over again.....Skip was a wonderful person...a wonderful human being who did a lot of wonderful things to ignite school spirit at Wake...and his premature death was tragic, but he was a mediocre coach...at best. Really good coaches win games when they don't have the most talent. Games they aren't supposed to win...like beating a 26-1 Arkansas team or a 24-2 DePaul team. None of Skip's teams ever did that. He got good players and won most of the games when he had better players....but never rose to the occasion of beating teams when coaching had to overcome superior talent.

And because I point out that obviously true fact, I get blasted.....because people here cannot separate Skip the man from Skip the coach. But that's your problem, not mine.
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Prosser took Wake to #1 in the nation for the first time. A mediocre coach doesn't do that. I'm not sure what your problem with him is or was but you are really off the rails here. And feel free to break down the triple overtime win at Chapel Hill when you talk about never winning a big game against superior talent. Get your mind right.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
Prosser took Wake to #1 in the nation for the first time. A mediocre coach doesn't do that. I'm not sure what your problem with him is or was but you are really off the rails here. And feel free to break down the triple overtime win at Chapel Hill when you talk about never winning a big game against superior talent. Get your mind right.
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One can't get a mind right if it never was. This man is Wake Forest's own Benedict Arnold, after all. The CRAZY and the TRAITOR just flows through the veins!
 
bobknightfan said:
I think Bz is a bad coach...but Skip was far from a good coach. As I've said over & over & over & over again.....Skip was a wonderful person...a wonderful human being who did a lot of wonderful things to ignite school spirit at Wake...and his premature death was tragic, but he was a mediocre coach...at best. Really good coaches win games when they don't have the most talent. Games they aren't supposed to win...like beating a 26-1 Arkansas team or a 24-2 DePaul team. None of Skip's teams ever did that. He got good players and won most of the games when he had better players....but never rose to the occasion of beating teams when coaching had to overcome superior talent.




And because I point out that obviously true fact, I get blasted.....because people here cannot separate Skip the man from Skip the coach. But that's your problem, not mine.
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Oh I don't know, Skip did take a very young Wake team and win a regular season championship with it when we were picked dead last in the preseason. That's pretty good coaching. To be fair Skip did not teach consistent hard-nosed defense and that hurt his record in the post season and in the long run.
 
Skip was a good coach who was a perfect fit for Wake. However, his coaching deficiencies kept him from winning in the NCAA's at both Xavier and Wake.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm not trashing anybody. I'm just stating facts.
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you're not stating fact. It took 20 seconds to come up with a number of Prosser wins that completely refute your point. Bob Knight was all about honesty, he'd be appalled
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm not trashing anybody. I'm just stating facts.
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I think it has been adequately posted that your facts don't add up. Bz is a bad coach. Skip was a good coach and a great human being. Bob Knight, who I respect as a basketball coach, has issues. What am I missing.
 
bobknightfan said:
I'm not trashing anybody. I'm just stating facts.
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I would counter with the win over the Carolina team in 2005 as probably one of the top five wins in Wake Forest history. DePaul is the best and most consequential, but that UNC team won it all that year. I think that's pretty good evidence of a good coaching job in a big game.

Skip was the perfect coach for Wake Forest. He more than anyone in his profession exemplified its values, and I am glad NOT to separate "Skip the person" from "Skip the coach." When you watch Josh Howard's speech and see the impact he had on his career (and by any logical extension, the trajectory of his life), I wouldn't trade two more wins against Dook for somebody of Skip's character as the school's most prominent symbol.

That said, please list the number of ACC schools that have at any time in their entire history been ranked #1 in the AP poll.
UNC/Dook/WakeForest/Syracuse/Maryland/NCState(a lifetime ago)/UVA(ditto)/NotreDame(maybe)/Pitt(maybe)....and?

Clemson, Ga Tech, BC, Florida State, Miami and Virginia Tech haven't come anywhere close in the entire history, and Skip built two teams that each did it, without a meaningful player in common.
 
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berneses said:
Skip was a good coach who was a perfect fit for Wake. However, his coaching deficiencies kept him from winning in the NCAA's at both Xavier and Wake.
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This. We prop him up because he was loved and left us way too soon, but he was one more bad season away from being on the hot seat. Still wish he was our coach, though.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
This. We prop him up because he was loved and left us way too soon, but he was one more bad season away from being on the hot seat. Still wish he was our coach, though.
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The brilliance of Prosser was that even when his team's were bad you still believed in the guy and rallied around him because of his persona and charisma. Wellman hired the antithesis of Skip in Jeff [Redacted]
 
Skip is dead. Bz is alive and coached the Clemson game.

Why are we talking about Skip?
 
bobknightfan said:
Obviously, Skip would not have gone 1-15 with those guys. Neither would [Redacted], or any other coach. I've already said that Skip won most of his games when he had better players. However, none of the three guys you mentioned played more than two years....so if that's the way you are going to build a winner, the building never stops. And some would argue that bringing in 1 & 2-year players eventually leads to the kind of situation that resulted in [Redacted] being brought in here in the first place. I guess it comes down to what kind of price one is willing to pay to reach the top in the world of college basketball today. It's just not worth it to me. I would rather lose with four year players than win with two year players.
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And there you have it. Skip always said you need more NBA players to win in the ACC than the other guy. And those kids are going to stay 1 to 2 years. And building on that premise Wake rose to #1 in the nation. Dino repeated the process. Now we have culture change and your dinosaur mentality in the athletic department and our basketball program is shit. It's just that simple.
 
bobknightfan said:
I was referring to the post-season. I didn't specifically mention that in this thread.....but I have many times in others. And referencing the Arkansas & DePaul wins should have been a tip-off to that....though we probably have several people on this board now who don't even know anything about those two wins.
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I understand the point you're trying to make, but throwing out 90% of the season leads shrinks the sample size down past the point of serious utility.

What coach currently at a BCS level program wins a character fight with Skip Prosser?
 
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