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Wake-Clemson

Dinos is a slight upgrade from Cav as is. His numbers are better than Cav's despite slightly fewer minutes and he already has multiple games better than any game in Cav's career at Wake.

Leonard is a pretty big downgrade from Moto. Haas would have been much more valuable than either of them. Ditching Shelton for Wilbekin was a nice call, but botching the Haas recruitment was a disaster for us and was one last nice fuck you from the past coaching staff.

Next year Manning fills the gaps, the year after that we hopefully add some elite talent as well. Freaking out about every game until then is fairly pointless. We're a flawed team.
 
wfu22fan said:
One clear point- we don't have a leader who can take and MAKE a shot at the end of a close game . You can't respond because it's a fact. Everyone is sick of CMM's bricks and late game fuck ups.
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Shooting isn't the end all be all.
 
But it sure helps, being as the goal is to score more than the other team
 
lol We have so many players that can't get their own shot effectively (Mitch, Leonard, Dinos, Tree, Crab pretty much, Gmc pretty much). CMM carries a really large creation and usage load, some of you folks would be shocked at how bad the offense would get without him for a whole game. You can't just take CMM out and transfer his shots to open 3s for Mitch and Dinos and Crab
 
Deacsfan27 said:
Shooting isn't the end all be all.
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Every good team has shooters. You aren't going to be a good team without someone or multiple people who threaten a defense from outside. We current have 0 of these.
 
TheIshThatSaved WakeForest said:
Obviously. He is shooting 42% from 3.
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He averages taking not quite 4 per game. I'll give him making 2 per. 2 for 4 isn't going to make any of our opposing coaches lose sleep. I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything. I'm absolutely thrilled he's wearing black and gold. My point is that our best outside threat is roughly 2 for 4 from 3 every game. Defenses aren't getting stretched like that.
 
Of course we need more shooters but to act like Wilbekin doesn't make a difference is incorrect. He has taken more threes than all but 1 of Duke's players so he is getting plenty of attempts.

With the slow pace of CBB overall, 6 or 9 points from 3s is definitely something you coach against.
 
My order of preference would be Dinos, Cav, Leonard. Not sure why Moto is lumped in with the others as he doesn't even pretend to be a stretch 4. He's more analogous to McClinton on this team than anyone else.
 
We obviously aren't a good shooting team, but we've got enough shooters to succeed. Blaming outside shooting is an easy narrative for fans to latch onto, but a far bigger problem is the lack of guys who can create shots as vwls mentioned. Along with Wilbekin, opposing teams respect Crab, Dinos and even Leonard from the outside, but even with a bunch of great shooters we have no one who can score effectively in an isolation or a pick n roll -- I doubt we get above .5 points per possession in any situation like that. (Not sure if these #s exist, but I'd love to see something like that on Devin face-ups from the block, for example)

That's part of why CMM looks bad at times, the burden of creating shots in the half-court offense is on him if our initial sets don't work. And we actually do run some solid sets to get players in solid positions in the half-court, but we just stink at capitalizing and end up turning the ball over a lot. Part of the reason why I actually would like to see us take more 3s and have Devin, McClinton, Codi et al. crash the offensive glass hard when we cant get out in transition -- basically, I'd be more than willing to trade off getting to the line for a lower turnover rate with the hopes of getting a ton of offensive boards.
 
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VaDeac said:
My order of preference would be Dinos, Cav, Leonard. Not sure why Moto is lumped in with the others as he doesn't even pretend to be a stretch 4. He's more analogous to McClinton on this team than anyone else.
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Uh, what? Moto was our starting 4 for 11 games last year and would have started at the 4 this year. Moto has 40 pounds of muscle on McClinton and plays above the rim. Travis took lots of 3's, played outside, rebounded the ball far worse than Moto, and didn't bang inside anything like Moto. He led us in rebounding in 7 games.

He'd be our starting 4 this year and Leonard wouldn't be on the team.
 
DCDeac said:
Uh, what? Moto was our starting 4 for 11 games last year and would have started at the 4 this year. Moto has 40 pounds of muscle on McClinton and plays above the rim. Travis took lots of 3's, played outside, rebounded the ball far worse than Moto, and didn't bang inside anything like Moto. He led us in rebounding in 7 games.

He'd be our starting 4 this year and Leonard wouldn't be on the team.
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You missed the word "Stretch." It's clear that Manning wants his 4 to have some semblance of an outside shot, which Moto doesn't possess.
 
You said you weren't sure why Moto was lumped in with the others. We'd trade Moto's lack of a 3 point shot for Leonard's "stretch scoring ability" any day of the week on this team.

I'm sure Manning would prefer that Codi was a stretch 2 but he still plays him because he's more effective than our other players.
 
VaDeac said:
You missed the word "Stretch." It's clear that Manning wants his 4 to have some semblance of an outside shot, which Moto doesn't possess.
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Is it clear? How do we know this? The starting 4 next year is likely Thomas or Collins, neither of which have an outside shot.
 
I took the fact that Manning himself went out and got two 4's who prefer to stay outside as evidence that that's what he wanted.
I guess it's plausible that it's all he could find at that point of the year however.
 
DeaconSig said:
Is it clear? How do we know this? The starting 4 next year is likely Thomas or Collins, neither of which have an outside shot.
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Yep. Leonard and Dinos were what Manning could get at the last minute.
 
Just to clarify the list was just our transfers that could have filled in some of the gaps we currently have.

Moto is an athlete and would have provided bulk around the rim. Shooting not so much.

Cav, I think would have provided some size inside while likely providing an adequate outside shot.

Fischer an outside shot and I think would have raised the team's BB IQ.

None of them were the perfect answer, I think we have one scholarship open next year so they would not have bumped a recruit.
 
wfu22fan said:
What if he gets fouled ? Remember Syracuse? Brick.
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mebanedeac said:
The problem is if he is fouled. Which would be the percentage play for a defense. It is really tough when a guard cannot shoot a high percentage from the line.
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I mean, yes, I agree, but sometimes, when fouled, he makes the basket too.

Also, your hypothetical scenario had us down 1: if he's fouled hard enough to miss the basket, I'd bet on him to make 1/2 and tie it.
 
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