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Wake Football Offseason Thread

If we choose to go pro-style quarterback instead of Hinton and dual-threat I would rather have Kearns be given a chance to play than Wolford. I like Wolford, he does a great job representing Wake Forest--but he hasn't proven to anyone that he can get the job done. Kearns is taller, can see over the line, has less of a chance to get the ball batted down by a D-lineman, and from what I can tell can throw the ball just as well if not better than Wolford. Honestly, I just want to see things shaken up a little bit. We've been doing the exact same thing for two years when Wolford is in the game and it hasn't worked. Hinton helped widen the range of what the offense could do and we played much better. Kearns should be given a serious chance to play in games if we decide not to go with Hinton. I just want something to change and I really don't feel like that will happen with Wolford at QB.
 
One perception that I have is that knowledge of the offense, and having the ability to make sure that everyone is lined up in the right place on every snap, will be the determining factor for the staff in who gets PT at the QB position. I know that the fans who read this board want to see the playbook expanded and I'd bet the coaches are eager to do the same. They won't do it with an inexperienced QB. Has Hinton come along enough that he can command the team at the line of scrimmage with an expanded playbook? Maybe. If not, it will absolutely be Wolford.

If we weren't playing for a bowl this year - if this was another development year - I'd say play Kearns. Heck, if things start out poorly this year I'd say play Kearns for the second half of the season.
 
Wolford was initially committed to WF under Grobe. While Clawson kept him in the fold, he was not a Clawson recruit. Hinton and Kearns are Clawson recruits. The QB battle is a meritocracy, and whomever gives the team the best chance to win will play. It's not like Clawson will give any QB the benefit of the doubt.

Those that are down on Wolford may be putting too much stock on his play when WF literally had the WORST OL among the 125 FBS teams as a true frosh. As a sophomore, Wolford hurt his ankle early in the season, and the team around was only marginally improved. Both Hinton and Wolford had some ups, but plenty of downs last year. Absent the complete lack of offensive talent on hand, Wolford would've red-shirted in 2014, and sat behind a more experienced QB in 2015 (and fans would be excited about the prospect of him playing for the first time). Instead, he played before he was ready with no talent around him, and it seems like some may be unfairly judging him in a situation that was destined for failure. Just think it's too early to close the book on him given the circumstances. Wolford has some talent, he has learned from the past two years, and the team's talent level is again improved. If Clawson starts Wolford, it will only because it puts WF in the best position to win.
 
I agree that Wolford played before he matured. I think the same can be said for Hinton. I think that Hinton brought a higher level of confidence to the team though. The team seemed to rally when Hinton was in the field. FSU, NCSU, IU, and the short time at Clemson when he played with mono. I think the team as a whole plays better when Hinton walks onto the field.
 
RTPdeac said:
I agree that Wolford played before he matured. I think the same can be said for Hinton. I think that Hinton brought a higher level of confidence to the team though. The team seemed to rally when Hinton was in the field. FSU, NCSU, IU, and the short time at Clemson when he played with mono. I think the team as a whole plays better when Hinton walks onto the field.
Click to expand...

+1
 
My memory has faded a lot from the forgettable past two seasons, so I would ask that some of the Hinton promoters refresh my memory as to what he did that was so miraculous and beyond what Wolford ever did that makes him the clear choice.

I recall the FSU game where Hinton made some big plays but I also recall that I attributed a lot of our good performance to FSU, who was clearly, clearly taking us lightly and wasn't prepared for Hinton's package. Hinton came into games later in the season to spell or replace Wolford and did practically nothing. As I recall...

I am ready to accede to the need for a better QB alternative, I just need to be much clearer in order to overrule Clawson's judgment on the matter who, like Pilchard says, will likely select the QB whom he feels will give us the best chance to win.
 
The old adage that "the most popular player on the team with fans is the back up QB" seems to be in play here. Those that don't watch practice everyday (includes everyone here) need to rely on the coaches to put the best player out there that gives us a chance to win games, and right now that appears to be Wolford in the eyes of this staff. Should that no longer be apparent to them, I think they won't hesitate to make a change to whomever they feels gives us the best chance to win, whether it be Wolford, Hinton or Kearns. Far as I know, Wolford is not related to anyone on this staff nor is he likely to have naked pictures of the coaches with a cheerleader that forces them to play him. My take is that he most likely understands the plays and playbook that Ruggerio wants to run and that is why he starts, not becuase he is the best athlete, best passer, best runner or can see over the line better, he just has a better grasp of the offense. When that is no longer the case, a change will be made because they want to win games too, and need to more than us because their paychecks and continued employment depend on it.
 
We're 1 of only 2 schools in the ACC with an OC returning that called plays in 2015. The other is the national runner-up, Clemson.
 
What do you mean he did practically nothing? Didn't he almost win us the Indiana game (granted he didn't have great stats, but it was his first start at the collegiate level and almost led Wake to the best comeback in school history)? Didn't he almost win us the FSU game? Didn't he come in against NC State after the first quarter that Wolford played terribly and made plays, including something along the lines of a 70 yard touchdown run? He struggled against Army in the first game he played significant time. And yes sportsnut while that may pertain to this situation in a way, most people/teams/fans that are obsessed with the back up QB haven't seen that back up play significant minutes and almost win the team football games against good competition.
 
Yeah, well I don't remember much if anything from the Indiana game for some reason so I'll leave that to you. The FSU game was exciting but like I said I *knew* the defending NCs weren't on top of their game that day. Still, a good effort.

I *said* "practically nothing" was later in the year after Wolford came back. People don't want to discuss those games because there was nothing to talk about. A backup has to show his stuff when he gets the opportunity. Hinton's highs in 2015 were higher than Wolford's I guess, but even then we still lost and maybe once teams were able to scout Hinton, say after Indiana and FSU, he seemed easier to contain. I'm all in favor of him getting more PT in 2016 because we'd all like to see some more productive QB play, I'm just confused by the "tiers ahead" attitude of Hinton fans.
 
Hinton's decline of performance probably had a lot less to do with other teams scouting him and learning his game than Clawson putting him in in completely obvious run situations and they would all out blitz every time because they knew what was coming. Then there was the louisville game that one of Hinton's only drives was the last series of the game that Clawson just kind of threw him in there and said "win us the game." That is why I hate the two QB strategy, it doesn't work and it didn't work last year. If anyone remembers, Clawson would wait until Wolford finally got within the red zone late in the season and put Hinton in when they get inside the ten. Any opposing coach that has the tiniest bit of common sense knows exactly what's coming. Clawson also brought in Hinton a couple times in the middle of a series on second or third down. Again, any coach could figure out what was about to happen.

I'm not saying Hinton is "tiers ahead" Wolford--but he played at the same, if not a higher, level than Wolford did and Wolford had a year more of experience running the offense and wasn't a freshman. Hinton had more touchdowns per snap and more yards per rush, while wolford had more yards per pass. Last I checked though scoring is the only thing that really matters.
 
Some stats to help with the Wolford-Hinton discussion:

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE (2015 – P5 OPPONENTS ONLY)
Wolford 59%
Hinton 50%

YARDS PER COMPLETION (2015 – P5 OPPONENTS ONLY)
Wolford 12.2 yards/completion
Hinton 10.2 yards/completion

So Wolford was further ahead in his passing stats than I had remembered, but Wolford was also throwing INTs:

TD/INT RATIO (2015 – P5 OPPONENTS ONLY)
Wolford 6 TDs / 10 INTs
Hinton 4 TDs / 3 INTs

But here’s the real difference maker, if you eliminate the impact of sacks by removing negative rushing yards, Hinton was actually Wake’s LEADING RUSHER last year:

POSITIVE RUSHING YARDS (2015 – ALL GAMES)
Hinton 504 yards
Bell 492 yards
Wolford 273 yards
Colburn 249 yards

So that’s where we were last year. If you run the numbers, Wolford’s better completion percentage and higher yards per completion equate to about 40 additional passing yards in a typical game. But Hinton was making up for that with the additional rushing yards. In addition, the offense was doing better because opposing defenses were having to account for Hinton’s rushing ability. Plus Wolford was throwing INTs. So nearly everyone became pro-Hinton. Then this happened:

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE (Spring Scrimmages)
Wolford 69%
Hinton 50%

YARDS PER COMPLETION (Spring Scrimmages)
Wolford 8.7
Hinton 9.6

While Hinton’s completion percentage was basically the same as last season, Wolford’s was a full ten points higher. That difference in completion percentage could mean upwards of 80 yards per game in additional passing yards.

So where you stand on the Wolford-Hinton debate probably depends on how much weight you put on the spring stats. If you recall the BloggerSoDear coverage from the spring, it did seem like the team worked extensively on the short passing game (remember all the references to bubble screens?) and we can see that in the dreadful yards per completion stats. So perhaps that influenced the completion percentage numbers.

If you disregard the spring entirely, I think you would have to be pro-Hinton. If you factor in the spring stats, it's much more difficult.
 
LOL at the thought of our slow-ass-fuck to develop offense running successful bubble screens. We might lose 4-5 receivers to death this season if we try that shit against the FSU and Clemsons of the world.
 
Wolford's completion percentage jump in spring practice is impressive but I would put much more stock into it if Hinton didn't use his running ability to open up the offense in-games, which is much harder to do in a spring practice. That was a great breakdown 94, your posts are always appreciated.
 
My issue with Wolford so far is that he his unique skillset is he is an accuracy passer - whose accuracy sometimes escapes him. I was excited when he was handed the ball last year as I saw a little Riley Skinner in him. The difference - so far - is that the game played real slow for Riley, and when he got overwhelmed as a frosh, he basically took a knee and the sack rather than throw the INT. I know there was a game or two where he was confused by a defense or two and threw multiple picks. And I think there were games late in his career when he was trying to do everything and the same happened, but he was never overwhelmed by ACC defenses - their size or speed. Never.

Wolford seems to have 3-5 spaz out plays a game. Some of them he gets away with, but usually it results in a pick or a jump ball. I don't think it is his size, I just think that, so far, he is not quite an ACC quality player and the speed and sizes of defenses, no matter his extreme preparation, can suddenly overwhelm him. Granted, he hasn't got a lot of line help, but you can see it in the games we play relatively bad competition and then the ones we don't

That said, if he plays behind Clemson's line last year with Clemson's receivers, he's probably pretty good, top half of the ACC QB. We are getting quality receivers for him, but I don't expect the line to be that dramatically improved.

One thing I think will help whatever QB we have is we need ways to lengthen the field on every play. I want the safeties that play us to be 15/20 yards off the line, not playing like virtual linebackers. To do that, we need long balls and we need RB plays that break the line and squib through linebackers. Playing against 11 guys within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage is just brutal.
 
Great points Bone. I agree. This is why I see Hinton as the best option. He makes the safety respect the run and his deep ball is better. His athleticism and deep threat will hopefully help our backs see a few more openings with the safety taking a step back on the snap instead of being another linebacker.
 
Jaybone - great point on lengthening the field. We've had whole defenses play 'in the box' against and we have been able to get thru or over them. I know we won't be a spread offense, bit just look at what Baylor was able to do by using the whole field and crating lists of space.
 
If I was an opposing defense, I would be a lot more concerned about facing Hinton than I would be at facing Wolford. That being said, we will be seeing both QB's a lot this season.
 
Good posts. We can't go with the QB who would be the best with a good OL unless we have a good OL. We need the QB and system to work around these flaws. That is Hinton.
 
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