Wake Forest @ Florida State - 7pm RSN

[Wrangor]

Cool story Hansel ^

 

[morrison2951]

Well, looking on the bright side with all the close and OT losses, we've got to be the best Power 5 DFL team in the country!:thumbsup:

 

[Deac83]

I don't disagree with this. However, the kid MUST learn that he can't dribble into quadruple coverage in crunch time. Codi... if four guys are closing on you.... SOMEONE HAS TO BE OPEN!!!

Reminds me 'somewhat' of Ish. For years people complained about Ish. End of game he'd dribble at half court, wait and wait, everyone knew he was driving and taking a shot. It wasn't really until his Sr. year that he was able to really harness his talent to be the most effective. Oh, and he was a worse FT shooter than CMM, yet he had the ball in his hands.

 

[DeacsATS]

I don't really understand the Ish comparison. They are 2 very different players (aside from the fact that neither one can shoot a jump shot very well). Ish didn't become a big time scorer his senior year because he learned how to shoot... his PPG went up because he was a much bigger part of the offense after Jeff Teague and James Johnson left for the NBA (and others graduated). It was basically just Aminu and Ish that year. In fact, if you look at shooting %, his senior year was his worst shooting year at Wake Forest (both from 2 and 3). Heck, he shot 49% from the line that year (after shooting 79% as a junior).

Yeah, Ish hit some big shots that year... But I'm going to call small sample size on that one. Or maybe we are only remembering the ones that went in.

***Sidenote: Looking at our roster that year, it is amazing to me that we won 20 games and went to the NCAAs. Aminu, Smith, LD Williams, and a Freshman CJ Harris.

 

[DCDeac]

I don't disagree with this. However, the kid MUST learn that he can't dribble into quadruple coverage in crunch time. Codi... if four guys are closing on you.... SOMEONE HAS TO BE OPEN!!!

Of course, this is somewhat ironic considering the final play of overtime where he was double-teamed on a drive and hit a wide open Wilbekin who missed the shot. In hindsight he probably should have taken it to the rack just like the end of regulation.

 

[TBDeac]

I don't really understand the Ish comparison. They are 2 very different players (aside from the fact that neither one can shoot a jump shot very well). Ish didn't become a big time scorer his senior year because he learned how to shoot... his PPG went up because he was a much bigger part of the offense after Jeff Teague and James Johnson left for the NBA (and others graduated). It was basically just Aminu and Ish that year. In fact, if you look at shooting %, his senior year was his worst shooting year at Wake Forest (both from 2 and 3). Heck, he shot 49% from the line that year (after shooting 79% as a junior).

Yeah, Ish hit some big shots that year... But I'm going to call small sample size on that one. Or maybe we are only remembering the ones that went in.

***Sidenote: Looking at our roster that year, it is amazing to me that we won 20 games and went to the NCAAs. Aminu, Smith, LD Williams, and a Freshman CJ Harris.

Not sure why you would think this. We started 3 seniors (one of whom was All-ACC that year), and a lottery pick. Off the bench we had a top 50 (or close) freshman, and a former 5-star (or close) sophomore, a redshirt senior big. With that roster we underachieved.

 

[DeacsATS]

When you put it like that, it sounds pretty good. But when I look at the roster below, I don't feel like we underachieved. I see a lot of players that had potential at that time, but we now have the benefit of hindsight. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

I will say there is a parallel with this year's team in terms of a clear lack of shooting prowess from the upperclassmen. The roster below is not an offensive juggernaut.

Al-Farouq Aminu SO F 6-9 15.8 Pts, 10.7 Reb, 1.3 Ast
Gary Clark JR G 6-4 3.2 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.2 Ast
C.J. Harris FR G 6-3 9.9 Pts, 1.8 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Chas McFarland SR C 7-0 7.2 Pts, 7.0 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Ishmael Smith SR G 5-11 13.2 Pts, 4.9 Reb, 6.0 Ast
Ari Stewart FR F 6-7 7.3 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Konner Tucker SO G 6-4 2.2 Pts, 0.7 Reb, 0.2 Ast
Ty Walker SO C 7-0 2.1 Pts, 1.6 Reb, 0.1 Ast
David Weaver SR C 6-10 2.6 Pts, 2.1 Reb, 0.2 Ast
L.D. Williams SR G 6-4 8.7 Pts, 5.6 Reb, 1.8 Ast
Tony Woods SO C 6-11 4.6 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.1 Ast

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

AFA was a top 5 rebounder in college that year and Ish mastered the Kobe asssist and that kept our offense afloat.

 

[DCDeac]

Not sure why you would think this. We started 3 seniors (one of whom was All-ACC that year), and a lottery pick. Off the bench we had a top 50 (or close) freshman, and a former 5-star (or close) sophomore, a redshirt senior big. With that roster we underachieved.

Seriously. That team had multiple NBA players and the ACC sucked that year. They collapsed down the stretch, dropping 5 of their last 6 including a blowout in the first round of the ACC tournament. Got lucky to draw a Texas team that was falling apart almost as badly as Wake was and then got destroyed by Kentucky.

I guess we are so used to underachieving with final four quality teams that having that team win only 1 postseason game felt like a victory?

 

[PhDeac]

People remember the Texas game and the Bz hire, but they don't remember the collapse down the stretch that led to the Miami debacle.

 

[TBDeac]

Seriously. That team had multiple NBA players and the ACC sucked that year. They collapsed down the stretch, dropping 5 of their last 6 including a blowout in the first round of the ACC tournament. Got lucky to draw a Texas team that was falling apart almost as badly as Wake was and then got destroyed by Kentucky.

I guess we are so used to underachieving with final four quality teams that having that team win only 1 postseason game felt like a victory?

Yeah. Looking back on it, last 32 is probably a fair indication of that team, but it always seemed like they couldn't quite put it together.

 

[PhDeac]

Yeah. Looking back on it, last 32 is probably a fair indication of that team, but it always seemed like they couldn't quite put it together.

On Feb 13, they were 18-5 (8-3) and looked like they had put it together and entered the Top 25 before losing 4 straight.

 

[morrison2951]

People remember the Texas game and the Bz hire, but they don't remember the collapse down the stretch that led to the Miami debacle.

I remember thinking after Dino got canned following the KY NCAA loss that RW had Brad Stevens in the bag. NOT!!!

 

[wsc8521s]

It didn't help Butler went on the run they did. If they had lost to like Murray State the day we lost to UK -- who knows.

But yeah, point still stands, Wellman woulda still fugged it up

 

[Deac83]

I don't really understand the Ish comparison. They are 2 very different players (aside from the fact that neither one can shoot a jump shot very well). Ish didn't become a big time scorer his senior year because he learned how to shoot... his PPG went up because he was a much bigger part of the offense after Jeff Teague and James Johnson left for the NBA (and others graduated). It was basically just Aminu and Ish that year. In fact, if you look at shooting %, his senior year was his worst shooting year at Wake Forest (both from 2 and 3). Heck, he shot 49% from the line that year (after shooting 79% as a junior).

Yeah, Ish hit some big shots that year... But I'm going to call small sample size on that one. Or maybe we are only remembering the ones that went in.

***Sidenote: Looking at our roster that year, it is amazing to me that we won 20 games and went to the NCAAs. Aminu, Smith, LD Williams, and a Freshman CJ Harris.

I'm certainly not saying they are the same player but there are some broad similarities especially especially for the end of games and how fans treat them.
- I'm sure we can find quite a few posts on how Ish was not an ACC PG - yet he made it to the NBA
- Fans were all over Ish for 3 years
- At the end of the games when CMM and Ish have the ball you know what's going to happen
- They both are willing to be 'the guy' at the end of the game. It worked out for Ish several times and didn't a few times. CMM is still trying.
- Both poor jump shooters
- Both bad FT shooters (Ish does make CMM look much better here)

Interesting, as good a shooter as CJ was I don't remember him hitting the end game shot. I know he missed a couple.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

When you put it like that, it sounds pretty good. But when I look at the roster below, I don't feel like we underachieved. I see a lot of players that had potential at that time, but we now have the benefit of hindsight. We can agree to disagree, I guess.

I will say there is a parallel with this year's team in terms of a clear lack of shooting prowess from the upperclassmen. The roster below is not an offensive juggernaut.

Al-Farouq Aminu SO F 6-9 15.8 Pts, 10.7 Reb, 1.3 Ast
Gary Clark JR G 6-4 3.2 Pts, 0.6 Reb, 0.2 Ast
C.J. Harris FR G 6-3 9.9 Pts, 1.8 Reb, 1.2 Ast
Chas McFarland SR C 7-0 7.2 Pts, 7.0 Reb, 0.8 Ast
Ishmael Smith SR G 5-11 13.2 Pts, 4.9 Reb, 6.0 Ast
Ari Stewart FR F 6-7 7.3 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.3 Ast
Konner Tucker SO G 6-4 2.2 Pts, 0.7 Reb, 0.2 Ast
Ty Walker SO C 7-0 2.1 Pts, 1.6 Reb, 0.1 Ast
David Weaver SR C 6-10 2.6 Pts, 2.1 Reb, 0.2 Ast
L.D. Williams SR G 6-4 8.7 Pts, 5.6 Reb, 1.8 Ast
Tony Woods SO C 6-11 4.6 Pts, 3.2 Reb, 0.1 Ast

I loved that team. Not only did they have a lot of talent, but the players fit with each other pretty well. Ish and AFA was a monte combo with Ish's ability to always get a shot off with Aminu's offensive rebounding ability, and Harris was a perfect 2 to pair with Ish.

Like the previous year, playing the packline was an abomination, killing us by negating our ability to force turnovers and defensive boards and get easy buckets in transition. Ugh.

ETA: That team was 2nd in the country in effective height, had plus-rebounding guards in LD and Ish, but somehow was only 201st in the nation in defensive rebounding %, just turrible.

 

[marquee moon]

I don't really understand the Ish comparison. They are 2 very different players (aside from the fact that neither one can shoot a jump shot very well). Ish didn't become a big time scorer his senior year because he learned how to shoot... his PPG went up because he was a much bigger part of the offense after Jeff Teague and James Johnson left for the NBA (and others graduated). It was basically just Aminu and Ish that year. In fact, if you look at shooting %, his senior year was his worst shooting year at Wake Forest (both from 2 and 3). Heck, he shot 49% from the line that year (after shooting 79% as a junior).

Yeah, Ish hit some big shots that year... But I'm going to call small sample size on that one. Or maybe we are only remembering the ones that went in.

***Sidenote: Looking at our roster that year, it is amazing to me that we won 20 games and went to the NCAAs. Aminu, Smith, LD Williams, and a Freshman CJ Harris.

Who was the coach that year?