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Wake Forest Football Recruiting

How dumb do you have to be to think that Clawson is not utilizing the portal?

At least as dumb as theReff, it would appear.
 
TheReff said:
I agree because Forbes & Walter are making hay in the portal, yet Clawson doesn’t want to, sonewhat like Dabo???
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Clawson is quite willing to go into portal. The last few years he may have leaned towards keeping his own developed and trained 6th and 7th year guys over a grad student from elsewhere. He has been running a player development program his whole career. Now those guys with extended careers are gone.

Both Forbes and Walter have noted that they have not gone after some guys because of the 60 hour requirement.
Also, incoming transfers have to have enough credits accepted by Wake academic departments to be in good standing to be eligible.

These requirements make it virtually impossible to bring a rising senior transfer to Wake and difficult to bring in rising juniors. Because Wake accepts very few (no?) Junior college credits, Walter is cut off from a large pool of good baseball players.

Note that most Wake's basketball transfer recruits have been either been grad transfers or guys with three years of eligibility.
 
Pilchard said:
The finalist for the NFC Defensive Rookie of the Year would beg to differ with that assessment.
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Yes we get a few but not many. And we did get a good LB from NC A&T last year that really helped but 1 or 2 spot players out of 25 man classes is nowhere near the % of basketball or baseball even. Football is using an excuse those other two are not.
 
Deaconblue said:
Clawson is quite willing to go into portal. The last few years he may have leaned towards keeping his own developed and trained 6th and 7th year guys over a grad student from elsewhere. He has been running a player development program his whole career. Now those guys with extended careers are gone.

Both Forbes and Walter have noted that they have not gone after some guys because of the 60 hour requirement.
Also, incoming transfers have to have enough credits accepted by Wake academic departments to be in good standing to be eligible.

These requirements make it virtually impossible to bring a rising senior transfer to Wake and difficult to bring in rising juniors. Because Wake accepts very few (no?) Junior college credits, Walter is cut off from a large pool of good baseball players.

Note that most Wake's basketball transfer recruits have been either been grad transfers or guys with three years of eligibility.
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Transfer portal & our pitching lab has made baseball transfers the place to be. Walter has done quite well with them the past couple of years and apparently for this season. Almost has made juco a thing of the past, especially around the Carolinas.
 
DeaconSig said:
How dumb do you have to be to think that Clawson is not utilizing the portal?

At least as dumb as theReff, it would appear.
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Hasn’t used it too much. Didn’t say he wasn’t using it at all. One or two good ones a year compared to others getting 10-15 is not much. Yes he has gotten a few but not like others. He has stayed with high school signings for the most part. That is not too hard to see except for dumb ones like DeacSig.
 
Deaconblue said:
Clawson is quite willing to go into portal. The last few years he may have leaned towards keeping his own developed and trained 6th and 7th year guys over a grad student from elsewhere. He has been running a player development program his whole career. Now those guys with extended careers are gone.

Both Forbes and Walter have noted that they have not gone after some guys because of the 60 hour requirement.
Also, incoming transfers have to have enough credits accepted by Wake academic departments to be in good standing to be eligible.

These requirements make it virtually impossible to bring a rising senior transfer to Wake and difficult to bring in rising juniors. Because Wake accepts very few (no?) Junior college credits, Walter is cut off from a large pool of good baseball players.

Note that most Wake's basketball transfer recruits have been either been grad transfers or guys with three years of eligibility.
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Hasn't Clawson had quite a few transfers in who have played none or very little?
 
80deacon said:
Hasn't Clawson had quite a few transfers in who have played none or very little?
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Eh, KJ Trujilo. I think Conor said that Walker Merrill was hurt part of the season, Drako was hurt, Jaeger Bull was just a weird addition, but he did play, Terrane Davis was hurt. Everyone else saw the field pretty regularly.

Clawson has hit in the portal. Last season our best DL, LB and DB were all transfers. Luiji Viliain was also a great addition. The offense has been different though. He hasn't really hit on anyone for an offensive transfer (Turner was average), instead he has been relying on developing players. You could argue that he never thought he needed the transfers on offense, because we had the players, but complacency breeds mediocrity.
 
IIRC, in the 2021 portal, WF landed a OG from Maryland that was raved about. He was expected to start, and then suffered a career ending injury.
 
TimmyClutch said:
You could argue that he never thought he needed the transfers on offense, because we had the players, but complacency breeds mediocrity.
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In the past three or so years, which offensive starters did you want replaced via the transfer portal other than Mitch Griffis? We have had no real issues at WR, and even still brought in Donald Stewart and Walker Merrill as solid depth options. Similar situation at RB with bringing in Christian Turner. Some OL help might have been nice, but the only year I think it was badly needed was last year. OL is also the position for which every single school wants impact transfers and there are relatively few of them in the portal.

I just think the opportunities to bring in offensive transfers that would be better than the guys we already had were extremely limited, and those scholarships were much better spent on defense. While he hasn't landed any huge names out of the portal, I think anyone criticizing Clawson's history with the portal isn't really paying attention.
 
deacon14 said:
In the past three or so years, which offensive starters did you want replaced via the transfer portal other than Mitch Griffis? We have had no real issues at WR, and even still brought in Donald Stewart and Walker Merrill as solid depth options. Similar situation at RB with bringing in Christian Turner. Some OL help might have been nice, but the only year I think it was badly needed was last year. OL is also the position for which every single school wants impact transfers and there are relatively few of them in the portal.

I just think the opportunities to bring in offensive transfers that would be better than the guys we already had were extremely limited, and those scholarships were much better spent on defense. While he hasn't landed any huge names out of the portal, I think anyone criticizing Clawson's history with the portal isn't really paying attention.
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I guess when you go from 4th in PPG to 115th in two seasons, you start to look for answers on how this happened. You could blame it all on a QB who started 9 games, or you could look at the unit as a whole. Maybe it happens by thinking you don't need to bring in players. Clearly though, there was room for improvement this off season.

I ask this seriously, what position groups do you think have been improved since the end of the season?

I look at who Wake is competing against, and a team like duke loses Riley Leonard and a couple other guys to P5 programs, and they bring in Maalik Murphy from Texas, 4 offensive linemen and a couple other complimentary pieces. Wake brings in Hank Bachmeir and a guy from Indiana State. This season Wake lost 3 starting WR's and is hoping Donovan Greene can replace the productivity of all of them. Complacency is how we ended up dead last in the ACC last year.

Christian Turner and Donald Stewart were P5 transfers, but it doesn't seem like Clawson is able to lure players like that this year. The nature of the game now is you're expected to reload and replace every off-season. Wake is going to keep losing guys to bigger schools, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to replace them while at the same time keep developing more. Unless Clawson can improve how he recruits in the portal, like teams such as Cuse, Pitt, UVA are doing, Wake will keep finishing near the bottom.
 
The guys we’ve gotten from places like Indiana St (Richmond, Delaware, NC A&T, ULM, Navy, Villanova all starters on D over the last 2 years) have been better than the types of guys we’ve gotten from P5 programs (Stewart, Merrill, Turner) generally. Luigi being the exception there.

D2/D3 additions have underwhelmed.

Give me all conference FCS guys all day.
 
Timmy,

WF brought in 5 transfers and is at the scholarship limit. So, WF could not brought in any more transfers than it did, unless the suggestion is that Clawson sign fewer HS players.

Unless the 247 database is wrong, Duke brought in two OL transfers, not four, one from Penn and one from Stanford. If you want to breakdown WF's OL transfer versus Duke's OL transfers good luck to you.

Duke had more portal openings than WF because Duke lost a lot more quality players via the portal than WF:

  • Two players to ND
  • One to VT
  • One to Auburn
  • One to NC State
  • One to Oregon
That's 7 Duke players to Power V schools. WF lost 4 transfers to Power V schools (one to Nebraska, two Indiana and one to NC State); so, WF lost less talent to the portal than Duke did.
 
Pilchard said:
Timmy,

WF brought in 5 transfers and is at the scholarship limit. So, WF could not brought in any more transfers than it did, unless the suggestion is that Clawson sign fewer HS players.

Unless the 247 database is wrong, Duke brought in two OL transfers, not four, one from Penn and one from Stanford. If you want to breakdown WF's OL transfer versus Duke's OL transfers good luck to you.

Duke had more portal openings than WF because Duke lost a lot more quality players via the portal than WF:

  • Two players to ND
  • One to VT
  • One to Auburn
  • One to NC State
  • One to Oregon
That's 7 Duke players to Power V schools. WF lost 4 transfers to Power V schools (one to Nebraska, two Indiana and one to NC State); so, WF lost less talent to the portal than Duke did.
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Cornell and Holy cross Oline too. Both all conference transfers (On3 updates quicker than 247). Yes, I like the idea of bringing in 4 guys when you know you need 1 or 2, because you increase your odds of hitting on one. So, Yes I like the chances that 1 of the 4 linemen that Duke brought in will likely be better than the 1 Wake brought in.

Yes, a team that needs to replace more players quickly should bring in fewer HS recruits and focus on players who can make an impact sooner.

Yes, a team like Duke who made a bowl is likely to have more quality players go to P5 schools. Now compare the overall numbers who transferred out. I’ll tell you Wake had 15, Duke had 10.

Looks like we agree across the board. Good post. I knew we were more alike than we thought.
 
TimmyClutch said:
I ask this seriously, what position groups do you think have been improved since the end of the season?
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The overall play of QBs will almost certainly be better in 2024 than 2023. Hecklinski and Bachmeier is a significant upgrade over Griffis and Marucci.

I expect the play of RBs to be improved as well, given the expected jump for Claiborne and Carney as upperclassmen. I don't think any Wake fan felt the need to add an impact transfer over Claiborne.

I have no idea how to judge the OL, but I genuinely think it's more likely that they are improved next season with the transfer + getting some key guys back from injury. We used one of our limited transfer scholarships here and I'm not going to pretend to be able to judge it at this stage.

WRs certainly lost depth, but I'm fine with Morin and Greene along with whatever we get from Fields/Merrill/Alexander. Could have argued for an impact transfer here but I think it's obvious that there were more pressing needs.
 
deacon14 said:
The overall play of QBs will almost certainly be better in 2024 than 2023. Hecklinski and Bachmeier is a significant upgrade over Griffis and Marucci.

I expect the play of RBs to be improved as well, given the expected jump for Claiborne and Carney as upperclassmen. I don't think any Wake fan felt the need to add an impact transfer over Claiborne.

I have no idea how to judge the OL, but I genuinely think it's more likely that they are improved next season with the transfer + getting some key guys back from injury. We used one of our limited transfer scholarships here and I'm not going to pretend to be able to judge it at this stage.

WRs certainly lost depth, but I'm fine with Morin and Greene along with whatever we get from Fields/Merrill/Alexander. Could have argued for an impact transfer here but I think it's obvious that there were more pressing needs.
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We have no idea if the bold is correct. We certainly hope that is the case, but we have no proof so far.
 
DeaconSig said:
We have no idea if the bold is correct. We certainly hope that is the case, but we have no proof so far.
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I mean you can make this statement about every incoming recruit until you see it on the field for Wake Forest, so sure.

I think it's very reasonable to feel good about Bachmeier and Hecklinksi (in both the short and long run) being better options for Wake than the ACC's worst QB last season and a guy that switched positions for a significant amount of time because he had no apparent future at QB. If you want to assume the worst and think this won't be true, go for it.
 
Timmy,

So many flaws.

Lets start with the 2023 Duke OL. In their two deep, they had 7 grad students and/or seniors who are not returning in 2024. So, on the Devils OL two deep for the upcoming season, Duke returns one OL starter, and two freshman that essentianially did not play -- that is it. WF had two seniors on its 2023 OL two deep and returns 8 players. So, Duke naturally is going to need to fill more OL holes than WF. Why was this not mentioned in your analysis?

On Duke's 2023 two deep depth chart overall, they had over 20 seniors and/or grad students (some places on the depth chart went into multiple positions like nickel), not counting Riley Leonard. WF had seven, one of whom was Chase Jones, who didn't take a snap last year. So, elementary roster construction would tell you that, with many more returning players, WF had fewer roster spots to fill and on the OL, in particular, did not have OL holes that Duke has. Clawson believes in primarily building his roster through HS recruiting and development. As opposed to returning three guys on the OL two deep and then hoping guys from Penn, Cornell and Holy Cross and fill the openings.

If you would prefer that WF run off half its roster and then fill it with grad students from the Patriot and Ivy Leagues, send your application to WF as recruiting coordinator.
 
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deacon14 said:
I mean you can make this statement about every incoming recruit until you see it on the field for Wake Forest, so sure.

I think it's very reasonable to feel good about Bachmeier and Hecklinksi (in both the short and long run) being better options for Wake than the ACC's worst QB last season and a guy that switched positions for a significant amount of time because he had no apparent future at QB. If you want to assume the worst and think this won't be true, go for it.
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I agree that they are likely to be an improvement over what we saw last year (statistically it would almost be impossible to be worse). One thing that concerns me is how Clawson has talked about how long it takes for QBs to learn our full playbook. A limited playbook leads to a predictable offense which isn’t great. If a true freshman is starting over two 5th year seniors either he is very good or the other two aren’t. Hank could potentially return to his 2021 form (#ThanksforHank) or like his play last year, he may not be good enough to make a bad team competitive (#Bachmeirturnoverdrive). The only known quantity at QB is Kern and while still an improvement, he is the guy who couldn't beat out Griffis and couldn't get a win at Cuse.

For Oline if this transfer is good enough to be an improvement to last year’s PFF 1st team all-conference unit then he will be additional diamond in the rough for Clawson. No one is likely to be able to replace Jurgens though so I think we still may be at a loss.

RB, I agree more Carney and Claiborne is likely going to be an improvement to our running game, unless the whole RB can’t block thing comes up again. I think this is also to be an equal or plus.

WR, we went for the guy from Tuskegee, so even Clawson knows they’re a need there. Mays, Alexander and Fields all combined for 7 catches last season so for one to be a credible 3rd option is going to take a lot of improvement. Maybe Melvin becomes the next great tall receiver. Probably should have kept Reid as a gray shirt and found someone in the portal but too late for that now.

TE, let’s call it a wash. Hite is a decent receiving TE. Boll blocked a little but that was it. This could have been another chance to grab a player out of the portal rather than bringing in DeLuca, but not my decision.

So while we have incrementally improved at QB and RB, I don't think we have improved the offense as whole.
 
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