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Washington Post: "Opposition to Obama Grows" & New Post/ABC Poll

It's a strong enough assumption to defeat the argument that failure to have HC does not affect interstate commerce sufficiently to support the commerce power.

I didn't say under the commerce clause. I said mandates have been legally used before by Congress, and that the commerce clause allows the use of any legislative methods necessary to assure a regulatory scheme has effect.

We can agree to wholly disagree on the last part. Suing is the last gasp of losing.
 
There's no way the HC law is not an abuse of the Commerce Clause. The SC is going to find fertile ground to strike it down. See the 207 page majority opinion in Florida v. DHHS et al.

For these reasons, we conclude that the individual mandate contained in the Act exceeds Congress’s enumerated commerce power. This conclusion is limited in scope. The power that Congress has wielded via the Commerce Clause for the life of this country remains undiminished. Congress may regulate commercial actors. It may forbid certain commercial activity. It may enact hundreds of new laws and federally-funded programs, as it has elected to do in this massive 975- page Act. But what Congress cannot do under the Commerce Clause is mandate that individuals enter into contracts with private insurance companies for the purchase of an expensive product from the time they are born until the time they die…
Because the Commerce Clause is an enumerated power, the Supreme Court’s decisions all emphasize the need for judicially enforceable limitations on its exercise. The individual mandate embodies no such limitations, at least none recognized by extant Commerce Clause doctrine. If an individual’s decision not to purchase an expensive product is subject to the sweeping doctrine of aggregation, then that purchase decision will almost always substantially affect interstate commerce…
This lack of limiting principles also implicates two overarching considerations within the Supreme Court’s Commerce Clause jurisprudence: (1) preserving the federal-state balance and (2) withholding from Congress a general police power. Morrison, 529 U.S. at 617–19, 120 S. Ct. at 1754; Lopez, 514 U.S. at 566–68, 115 S. Ct. at 1633–34; Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. at 30, 57 S. Ct. at 621. These concerns undergird the Constitution’s dual sovereignty structure, ensuring that the federal government remains a government of enumerated powers.
 
Right now we have a radically RW group of four juistice s and weak fifth in Kennedy. This group overstepped more than a hundred years of precedent, laws passed by Republicans and Democrats to grossly epand and pervert the 1st Amendment.

There never was anything in the 1st Amendment about advertising until this Court radically changed the Constitution. CU had nothing to do with FREE speech. It was 100%about advertising.

I have no doubt this group of five will screw the US public again.
 
There never was anything in the 1st Amendment about advertising until this Court radically changed the Constitution. CU had nothing to do with FREE speech. It was 100%about advertising.

Huh? Commercial speech--adverstising--has been protected under the 1st Amend since 1993: Edenfield v. Fane, Kennedy, Rehnquist, White, Blackmun, Stevens, Scalia, Souter, and Thomas joining in the majority.
 
This moment in legal history was brought to you by rj.
 
Huh? Commercial speech--adverstising--has been protected under the 1st Amend since 1993: Edenfield v. Fane, Kennedy, Rehnquist, White, Blackmun, Stevens, Scalia, Souter, and Thomas joining in the majority.

That decision has nothning to do with saying money=speech or that advertising cannot be regulated by Congress.
 
It's a strong enough assumption to defeat the argument that failure to have HC does not affect interstate commerce sufficiently to support the commerce power.

I didn't say under the commerce clause. I said mandates have been legally used before by Congress, and that the commerce clause allows the use of any legislative methods necessary to assure a regulatory scheme has effect.

We can agree to wholly disagree on the last part. Suing is the last gasp of losing.

2and2 has been pummeled on this topic before, but he keeps going back to the well. It's the most conservative court in history, though, so it will be struck down for political reasons. The contortions from Scalia to backtrack from his dissent will be epic.
 
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There's no way the HC law is not an abuse of the Commerce Clause. The SC is going to find fertile ground to strike it down. See the 207 page majority opinion in Florida v. DHHS et al.

The judge in this case calls the 975 page healthcare bill "massive" when it takes him 207 pages to attempt to justify his political decision on solely the individual mandate portion of the bill based on some bullshit activity v. inactivity argument. Irony.
 
The judge in this case calls the 975 page healthcare bill "massive" when it takes him 207 pages to attempt to justify his political decision on solely the individual mandate portion of the bill based on some bullshit activity v. inactivity argument. Irony.

Right, because the Commerce Clause is just surplusage and the Constitution really doesn't place any limits on Congress' power. And, folks, its all political. Fucking genius points. Please share more.
 
It is political, fucktard. The only decision on this matter that hasn't gone right down political lines was a decision that held it was constitutional. As for limits on Congress's power, ask your friend Scalia what those are, as Arlington stated.

My other genius points on this matter were on an extremely lengthy thread from a few months ago -- you didn't grace everyone with your presence on that, unfortunately.

Your genius point: it's unconstitutional, here's a portion of a judge's decision that says so. Genius.
 
It is political, fucktard. The only decision on this matter that hasn't gone right down political lines was a decision that held it was constitutional. As for limits on Congress's power, ask your friend Scalia what those are, as Arlington stated.

My other genius points on this matter were on an extremely lengthy thread from a few months ago -- you didn't grace everyone with your presence on that, unfortunately.

Your genius point: it's unconstitutional, here's a portion of a judge's decision that says so. Genius.

Good to see the resident hack weigh in on this. Hey genius - every constitutional law case ever decided has been based on ideology that could be deemed political by the losing side. The Court determines what outcome it desires, and then works backwards to generate some semi-appropriate "test" (strict scrutiny, rational relationship, etc) to achieve that result and corresponding justification as to why that particular test, and not the dozens of others that could be utilized (but would generate a different result from the one ultimately desired), should be used.

Here is my prediction: If the Court rules Obamacare constitutional, you will say that the Court followed precedent. If the Court rules Obamacare unconstitutional, you will claim the decision was political.
 
It is political, fucktard. The only decision on this matter that hasn't gone right down political lines was a decision that held it was constitutional. As for limits on Congress's power, ask your friend Scalia what those are, as Arlington stated.

My other genius points on this matter were on an extremely lengthy thread from a few months ago -- you didn't grace everyone with your presence on that, unfortunately.

Your genius point: it's unconstitutional, here's a portion of a judge's decision that says so. Genius.

Oh noes, I missed your brilliant constitutional analysis on the issue? I'm sure it was awesome, douchelord, you probably should be proud. Keep sniffing Arlington's butt on Scalia concurrence in the Raich case--the situations are rather distinguishable.
 
It's going to be very entertaining when Obamacare is unconstitutional and we see an immediate drop in unemployment. On the one hand, liberals will be shrieking and misusing terms such as "activist" in analyzing the decision. On the other hand, they will almost certainly try to spin the drop in unemployment as being the result of Obama's policies.
 
Shoo, just remember there is no way to civilly disagree with Classisc. If you try he simply starts calling you names...
 
It's going to be very entertaining when Obamacare is unconstitutional and we see an immediate drop in unemployment. On the one hand, liberals will be shrieking and misusing terms such as "activist" in analyzing the decision. On the other hand, they will almost certainly try to spin the drop in unemployment as being the result of Obama's policies.

It has little to nothing with unemployment. It's a red herring.

It's a greeat way for the company to keep their profits and not hire anyone.

It's about DEMAND not Obamacare.
 
Thanks for agreeing with me on the politics of this 2and2 -- I assume you also agree that the right's perpetual attack on judicial activism is a wee bit one-sided. As for whether this is constitutional, go crunch some numbers, you've been out of your depth.

As for what I'll say regarding the outcome, I'm mostly just concerned with Scalia and whether he jumps through hoops to declare the law unconstitutional.
 
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It has little to nothing with unemployment. It's a red herring.

It's a greeat way for the company to keep their profits and not hire anyone.

It's about DEMAND not Obamacare.

We shall see. I think it's a combination of both lack of demand and the crushing spectre of Obamacare. I'm not assigning weight to the two, but I fully expect a very sudden spike in jobs when the court rules Obamacare unconstitutional.
 
That doesn't mean Obamacare is a "crushing spectre". It means some people believe it's a crushing spectre and they're scapegoating it.
 
We shall see. I think it's a combination of both lack of demand and the crushing spectre of Obamacare. I'm not assigning weight to the two, but I fully expect a very sudden spike in jobs when the court rules Obamacare unconstitutional.

I work for a Fortune 50 company. There are weightier issues than worrying about the future effects of the health care bill driving headcount decisions.

If the mandate is held to be unconstitutional, although some courts have done so, I don't think the Supreme Court will invalidate the whole bill. What that means I'm not sure.
 
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Fortune 50 companies are not the problem, presumably they already offer most what they will have to comply with.
 
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