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Welcome Dave Clawson - 430PM Presser (Clawson Wins Presser, OGB Gets E-Boners)

DeaconSig said:
I'm not forgetting shit. I still would rather hire a new AD before we hire a new basketball coach. But to suggest Lembo was our first choice is, well, not in line with the facts. He may have been the first choice of OGBoards (and me), but BSD has already said no official offer was made to Lembo, which means he wasn't our first choice. With out getting to much into semantics, we only made 1 offer. And unless someone was in the room or reading the emails of Lembo and Wellman, nobody knows where Lembo fell on Wellman's wish list.
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I realize we'll never know, but every "insider" and "outsider" post/quote/etc seemed to indicate Lembo was the first choice. Those are all the "facts" we have. Whether an official offer was made doesn't seem to matter much. The details are worked out before an official offer is made. Hell, if an offer on the table is what indicates first choice, Buzz was Wellman's first choice.
 
RacerDeac said:
I realize we'll never know, but every "insider" and "outsider" post/quote/etc seemed to indicate Lembo was the first choice. Those are all the "facts" we have. Whether an official offer was made doesn't seem to matter much. The details are worked out before an official offer is made. Hell, if an offer on the table is what indicates first choice, Buzz was Wellman's first choice.
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Which specific "insider" and "outsider" posts indicated Lembo was the first choice?
 
DONKbo was talked to first because DA CLAW was out winning championships, nbd.
 
DeaconSig said:
Which specific "insider" and "outsider" posts indicated Lembo was the first choice?
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You're welcome to read back through the thread. You're the one claiming "facts" point to Clawson. What specific facts do you have that indicate Clawson was the first choice?
 
pourdeac said:
I realize it's cool to slam Wellman, but this is getting ridiculous. One individual had that opinion of Lembo being "perfect". One individual thought Bz would be "perfect".

Clausen, Lembo and Naz were all considered top choices. We got one of them...which is awesome IMO. Clausen probably has one of the best resumes we've ever had as a head coach. Does anyone know of a better one? That means we have successfully built on Grobe's tenure as coach. A+ for this hire. It also bodes well for the future when looking for a bball coach.
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It's cool to slam Wellman because he deserves it. His track record, with a couple of exceptions, speaks for itself. Clawson may end up being a great hire, and I hope he does, but the timeline of events associated with this search suggests Wellman wanted Lembo and couldn't seal the deal.
 
Well his facts are we offered Clawson and didn't offer Lembo, which he is using as a proxy for saying Clawson was our first choice.

I heard from a couple people on the Board that the first choice was Lembo (directly from Wellman's mouth) but that could be wrong as well and just fodder.
 
RacerDeac said:
I realize we'll never know, but every "insider" and "outsider" post/quote/etc seemed to indicate Lembo was the first choice. Those are all the "facts" we have. Whether an official offer was made doesn't seem to matter much. The details are worked out before an official offer is made. Hell, if an offer on the table is what indicates first choice, Buzz was Wellman's first choice.
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Who the hell cares if he was choice 1A, 1B, or 1C?

Seems like a lot of "hate" over innuendo and rumor....and we even got one of the guys we were targeting.
 
Before this turns into a toxic shock tampon fight, I'd hate for there to be misunderstanding from my posts to cause people's giners to get all out of whack. Financials were discussed, other minutiae was important, no formal offer was made, from people on both sides it seemed like Lembo was the ideal candidate. That's usually how these things work though. By the time a formal offer is made, everything has been hammered out in principle and there are no surprises. A formal offer is more formality than offer if that makes sense.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Bowling Green is 9 points better in each of Sagarin's three ratings - one counting just wins and losses, one counting win and loss margin and adjusting for SOS, and one which uses win and loss margin.

Ball State was an 8 point underdog to NIU (which I realize included the fact that the ranking next to NIU's name would sway picks) and Bowling Green is a touchdown better than NIU on Sagarin.
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Sagarin isn't the best projector though. The BSU 8 pt spread was on the road. Bowling Green, (despite being higher in Sagarin at the time) was probably around a net 4 point underdog on neutral on Friday. Adjusting for home field those spreads are pretty close. The one beastly BG performance isn't going make them a 9 point better team to Vegas.

BG is favored by what 6 over Pitt in the bowl? I actually think Ball St. would be a slight favorite or pickem against Pitt if that were their match up.
 
OverThePylon said:
Before this turns into a toxic shock tampon fight, I'd hate for there to be misunderstanding from my posts to cause people's giners to get all out of whack. Financials were discussed, other minutiae was important, no formal offer was made, from people on both sides it seemed like Lembo was the ideal candidate. That's usually how these things work though. By the time a formal offer is made, everything has been hammered out in principle and there are no surprises. A formal offer is more formality than offer if that makes sense.
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Agreed. Was just pointing out the facts that I thought might support Sig's point.

I think it's clear that these two guys were far and away the top candidates since Wellman was already on the way to Detroit to see Clawsen before any deal had materialized/fallen apart/whatever with Lembo.
 
OverThePylon said:
Before this turns into a toxic shock tampon fight, I'd hate for there to be misunderstanding from my posts to cause people's giners to get all out of whack. Financials were discussed, other minutiae was important, no formal offer was made, from people on both sides it seemed like Lembo was the ideal candidate. That's usually how these things work though. By the time a formal offer is made, everything has been hammered out in principle and there are no surprises. A formal offer is more formality than offer if that makes sense.
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Yea I don't know why people are so hung out up on the "no offer = wasn't our first choice" thing. That's just not how job searches work at all. The only reason we never "formally offered" him a contract is because the sides couldn't agree on the parameters of what that contract would look like. That hardly means we preferred another candidate (be it Clawson or anyone else) over Lembo.

It'd be like discussing a job opening with Applicant A, your first choice, where it comes out during discussions that Applicant A will not agree to a start date before January 1, 2014. You really need whoever fills this position on December 15, 2013. So you talk to Applicant B, who is free to start on December 15. And you offer Applicant B, and he accepts. None of this means that Applicant A wasn't your first choice; he just had a demand -- here, a later start date -- that you as the employer weren't comfortable with. It's fine, it happens.
 
FckVwls said:
Sagarin isn't the best projector though. The BSU 8 pt spread was on the road. Bowling Green, (despite being higher in Sagarin at the time) was probably around a net 4 point underdog on neutral on Friday. Adjusting for home field those spreads are pretty close. The one beastly BG performance isn't going make them a 9 point better team to Vegas.

BG is favored by what 6 over Pitt in the bowl? I actually think Ball St. would be a slight favorite or pickem against Pitt if that were their match up.
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I understand how Sagarin works, and for the most part at this point in the year it's pretty damn close on bowl games/Vegas lines (most are likely within 3 points). Even with the three points, that still has Bowling Green as around a touchdown favorite over Ball State.
 
FckVwls said:
Sagarin isn't the best projector though. The BSU 8 pt spread was on the road. Bowling Green, (despite being higher in Sagarin at the time) was probably around a net 4 point underdog on neutral on Friday. Adjusting for home field those spreads are pretty close. The one beastly BG performance isn't going make them a 9 point better team to Vegas.

BG is favored by what 6 over Pitt in the bowl? I actually think Ball St. would be a slight favorite or pickem against Pitt if that were their match up.
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Not for nothing, but Vegas gives approximately zero fucks about putting an accurate outcome in their point spread. They want 50% of the money on each side of the ledger. You have a BG team that's the belle of the ball right now after beating NIU and a Pitt team that is notorious for shatting their bed against MAC teams. Casual betters are likely to let the emotion of the NIU upset sway their bets, thus shifting the line in BG's favor. Same thing happens to Notre Dame and Alabama because their fans will bet them no matter what. The spread could be Alabama +purple and people would still lay bets on the Tide.

Vegas doesn't care about being right. They care about making money. Point blank period.
 
OverThePylon said:
lol wut?
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See my last post - Bowling Green is 9.5 points better than Ball State on all three Sagarin ratings.

Maybe BGSU's rating is swayed by beating NIU so badly, but NIU wasn't very high in Sagarin before the game either (BGSU was favored on Sagarin) and they've played 13 games now so it's unlikely one game swayed too much.

Perhaps my point would have been better stated to say: objectively Bowling Green is almost certainly around a touchdown or more better than Ball State and left Vegas out of it. Although I subscribe to the belief that for the most part Vegas is going for the most accurate pick on the spread rather than always going for 50/50.

The point against the BGSU bowl game would make more sense if BGSU weren't actually 8.5 points better on Sagarin than Pitt in the first place, so Vegas is actually under that.
 
RacerDeac said:
You're welcome to read back through the thread. You're the one claiming "facts" point to Clawson. What specific facts do you have that indicate Clawson was the first choice?
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Wakeforest22890 said:
Well his facts are we offered Clawson and didn't offer Lembo, which he is using as a proxy for saying Clawson was our first choice.

I heard from a couple people on the Board that the first choice was Lembo (directly from Wellman's mouth) but that could be wrong as well and just fodder.
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I think numbers post matches my understanding. I think I have read every post on this board and the other two on the coaching search, and I've not seen any information from an "insider" (and with all due respect to buckets and brews, I don't consider them insiders) that would make me think we did anything but interview Lembo, interview Clawson, and then decide to offer Clawson the job. Coaching interviews are often very detailed, as you might expect. It is not shocking that things such as salary, improvements, and academic exceptions would be discussed in an interview.

I hate this shit. I am defending Wellman, who I want to leave Wake. But it blows my mind that people want to say things like "Wellman couldn't get his first choice" when we have no evidence that is what actually happened. Is it possible? Sure. But absent information from somebody with a known track record confirming that we wanted Lembo but couldn't get him because of X (salary demands were too high, academic demands were too strenuous, not willing to give Wellman a foot rub every afternoon at 3:15), I'm not going to assume that Wellman fucked up this search.
 
Hell even if Lembo was the first person we went to and the guy Wellman wanted, he still got a hell of a coach and didn't wait three weeks after the Lembo deal to move on. We interviewed Clawsen within 48 hours. It was clear that we wanted both/either of them.
 
As a Bowling Green alumnus noted to me today: "No good deed in the MAC goes unpunished".
 
pourdeac said:
I realize it's cool to slam Wellman, but this is getting ridiculous. One individual had that opinion of Lembo being "perfect". One individual thought Bz would be "perfect".

Clausen, Lembo and Naz were all considered top choices. We got one of them...which is awesome IMO. Clausen probably has one of the best resumes we've ever had as a head coach. Does anyone know of a better one? That means we have successfully built on Grobe's tenure as coach. A+ for this hire. It also bodes well for the future when looking for a bball coach.
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Jimmy Clausen and Naz-T Deac? OH THE HUMANITY
 
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