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WF Marching Band

lokisapocalypse said:
I think what's lost here is that all of the changes being suggested are outside of anyone's control. I don't think anyone would disagree that changes are needed but forcing people to play a new instrument or forcing music majors to be in marching band for a semester are just bandaid solutions. Those of us that did marching band did it because it was fun. Basketball certainly helped with that in my case (2001-2005) but I still did it in 2006 when I knew I was going to graduate in December. It worked out great because that was the year we won the ACC.

When people complain about the size of the band, it feels targeted at those either in band or those in charge when in reality, there isn't much they can do to improve the situation. Whether intentional or not, comments like our band is a joke and a laughingstock is insulting to those who do actively participate in it.

We've always been a small band because we're a small school. When I was there, we had the highest % of undergraduate students in marching band. I don't know if that's still the case.

3rd and 4th year members get a stipend and that's very helpful but as a new player, that seems like a far off goal. However, without additional funding from the athletic department, there's not much more the band directors can do.
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Sounds like the band director should ask for money if they’re tired of being considered a joke. Or stop trying to be something they can’t be.
 
Finding solution to a problem begins with understanding the causes that lead to the problem.

The problem expressed here, is that the Wake marching band makes a poor impression on the field, mostly because it is small. And the band is smaller than it was 40 years ago. The Wake student body is larger. In theory, the band should be larger as well. It isn't. So we have been discussing the factors that contribute to the decline in size.

The big systemic issue, driven by Wake's efforts to become an elite national university is the dearth of instrumental music majors. Back in the day, the band would have multiple dozens of instrumental music majors. Most were planning to become band directors in K-12 schools. These people are gone, priced out of Wake. And the JuCo route is effectively closed as well, because of the Wake policy toward JuCo classes.

Wake costs (tuition, fees, books, room and board etc.) for a year used to be less than the price of a cheap new compct car. And in absolute dollars, not greatly more than many state schools, especially compared to out of state prices. Today, Wake cost of attendance for a year is about the price of fully loaded top of the line SUVs. And significantly more than state school costs. Add a post grad year to get the pedagogy classes at some state teacher u and the cost is not doable for future school teachers. This alone probably removes about 30 people from the Wake marching band.

This not easily changed. It would take millions in scholarship funding to make instrumental music/ band director training financially viable.
 
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I don't know where to find any actual data on this, so it's just going to be a battle of anecdotes, but I question the idea that "Back in the day, the band would have multiple dozens of instrumental music majors. Most were planning to become band directors in K-12 schools." My day was 1994-2001, and I can only think of one person I knew in the band who was a music major and went on to have an actual career in music education (he's now a professor of percussion at a small college). I'm struggling to think of anyone else I knew who fit this profile and certainly don't think there were "multiple dozens" of them. Of the people I was close with, many were in business school, one guy was a physics major, a couple anthropology, political science, pre-med, etc. Banddeac or TSY might have further insight.

My personal opinion is that as far as "systemic issues", basketball being a sinkhole of ineptitude for 10 years is a bigger systemic issue than the lack of music majors. And that is something that our athletic director can do something about.
 
The basketball suckage cannot be overstated. I was in the band back when tie dye nation was a thing during Prosser and we got choice seats for every home game. Otherwise, students would have to get there hours in advance to line up for seats. It was a great way to enjoy the games.

We’d also have to play for a few women’s games, which felt like more of a chore since the team was so bad and the place was empty.

Now every men’s game is like that, and has been for a decade. Who wants to sign up for that burden?
 
Deacon923 said:
I don't know where to find any actual data on this, so it's just going to be a battle of anecdotes, but I question the idea that "Back in the day, the band would have multiple dozens of instrumental music majors. Most were planning to become band directors in K-12 schools." My day was 1994-2001, and I can only think of one person I knew in the band who was a music major and went on to have an actual career in music education (he's now a professor of percussion at a small college). I'm struggling to think of anyone else I knew who fit this profile and certainly don't think there were "multiple dozens" of them. Of the people I was close with, many were in business school, one guy was a physics major, a couple anthropology, political science, pre-med, etc. Banddeac or TSY might have further insight.

My personal opinion is that as far as "systemic issues", basketball being a sinkhole of ineptitude for 10 years is a bigger systemic issue than the lack of music majors. And that is something that our athletic director can do something about.
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The percussion professor you’re thinking about (can’t imagine there was a second) is at a large public university. He’s shown up directing the band during the NCAA Tournament.
 
Maybe the model should be more like the UVa pep band used to be. A fairly small group, noted more for it's creative shows. IIRC the band became more traditional after its satire of WVU fans crossed the line.
 
Deacon923 said:
I don't know where to find any actual data on this, so it's just going to be a battle of anecdotes, but I question the idea that "Back in the day, the band would have multiple dozens of instrumental music majors. Most were planning to become band directors in K-12 schools." My day was 1994-2001, and I can only think of one person I knew in the band who was a music major and went on to have an actual career in music education (he's now a professor of percussion at a small college). I'm struggling to think of anyone else I knew who fit this profile and certainly don't think there were "multiple dozens" of them. Of the people I was close with, many were in business school, one guy was a physics major, a couple anthropology, political science, pre-med, etc. Banddeac or TSY might have further insight.

My personal opinion is that as far as "systemic issues", basketball being a sinkhole of ineptitude for 10 years is a bigger systemic issue than the lack of music majors. And that is something that our athletic director can do something about.
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Yeah, when was "the day" Wake had multiple dozens of music majors? Must have been back on the old campus. I graduated in '01 as one of four music majors in my class. One of them, I think, played trumpet and may have been in the band, but took care of his departmental requirements early unlike the other three of us, so I didn't really know him. I did early music and the other two were more into church music directing, though I now have visions of one of them also being in the band maybe? So maybe two out of four.
 
Mid-late '90s Wake tuition ramp up was already well underway. I was going back to '70s when Wake was a bargain.
 
Probably a lot cooler place back then with multiple music majors since we are all so cool.
 
tagsfan said:
Maybe the model should be more like the UVa pep band used to be. A fairly small group, noted more for it's creative shows. IIRC the band became more traditional after its satire of WVU fans crossed the line.
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Actually, the old band was banned and died, and a rich alum gave $10M to start an all-new, traditional marching band.
 
For some comparison numbers:

1973-64 App State out of state tuition $685 per semester room $315 semester. Food costs?
Total for year = $2000 plus food.

Instate tuition was about $150 per semester for an annual cost of about $930 plus food.

Wake was less than $2500 total per year then.

Today, App State annual total cost of attendance is about $34K, while Wake annual total cost is near $72K.

In the '70s, the difference would barely get a so-so used car. Today the difference is a very nice, well equipped brand new family sedan.

This increased cost differential pretty much eliminated instrumental music as a viable major at Wake.

Basketball pep band was not a draw. Basketball was bad. Top recruit was an all-county guy from upstate PA. Band director had to beg for players for most games.

There was a group in my dorm that made up a big portion of the pep band. Some games we would gather in the dorm lounge and arrive en masse just before the deadline to get on the bus. Director accused us of trying to give him a heart attack.

Wake had about 10 instrumental music majors per class year then. They and their families could afford Wake. As tuition went up rapidly, that became not to be true.
 
I am amazed at how much play a thread about our band is getting. :cool:
 
How many kids were in the marching band in 1973?

In any case, no offense but I don't see how the early 70s are at all relevant to today. As you have pointed out, when I was at wake the tuition was already getting out of hand, and as I and others have pointed out, the music majors were gone by the late 90s. And yet we had a band that was 30% bigger than it is today. So the music majors are not the issue in the recent decline.
 
There didn't seem to be a big band in my era. And like RAs weren't thought much of at the time. Well, they were liked a bit more than RAs (weasel narcs).
 
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The band marched 96 instruments in the '70s.

Understanding the differences between Wake then and Wake now is part of developing reasons why the Wake marching band now is smaller than it was then.

Loss of instrumental music majors between the '70s an '90s seems to have been overcome by making marching band a prerequisite for coveted basketball pep band spots.

Today it seems like basketball pep band is like in the '70s. Begging for people to come and play. So it is no longer a driver of marching band participation.
 
Something to think about is the school was 40+% smaller in undergrads in the early/mid-70s than today.
 
And here I thought RJ's era was the big band era.
 
So it sounds like it will take $10 million+ to fix the band. I vote we spend it on Danny's buyout and fix BBall and the band!
 
MBDeac08 said:
I'm a former member and would agree our band looks pretty lame right now. I suppose I'm allowed to say that. I had some friends ask a few weeks ago if Wake had a community band; their understanding was few Wake students did marching band so we had to ask other schools to fill in.

I can't say that I have sure fire solutions to fix the issue but leadership has to do better. Band director and athletic director included.
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Am I the only one who thought the MB in MBDeac08 meant Myrtle Beach?
 
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