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WFU Hoops: '24-'25 Roster Construction Thread: (-) Carr, Monsanto, Ituka, Clark, Miller, Marsh, Keller, Canka / (+) Spillers, Biliew, Cosby

buckets said:
I think our fans are already looking back on the season and justifying the outcome as being "pretty close" to where we want to be

The reality (to me) is that this season was defined by:
  • 7 games below that were winnable with blown leads:
@ Georgia - 8 pt lead mid 1st half
Utah - 12 pt lead in the 2nd half
@ NC State - 12 pt lead just before halftime
@ Pitt - 12 pt lead early in the 2nd half
@ ND - 9 pt lead early in the 2nd half
@ VT - 15 point lead end of 1st half
Ga Tech - no lead until 18 seconds left, we went up one... and still lost
  • After beating Duke to get to 18-9, cusp of being ranked in the top 25, rumblings of a darkhorse NCCAT no one wants to play... we completely fell apart and limped to an early NIT exit

If we're going to have 80% roster turnover every offseason, then this kind of season isn't building towards anything in the future. It's just a colossal disappointment with a team that has maybe 1-3 guys that have NBA potential. We already missed the NCAAT with 2 nba players. So it's not talent holding these teams back.... ???
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80% ? That's 10.4 players per year. That is worse than I realized. My goodness!!!
 
buckets said:
I'm not sure how much better of a roster Wake can put together in the current environment than 2022 and 2024 - and that wasn't enough.
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The '23-24 roster had one player who made 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or Honorable Mention ALL ACC; the starting SG played with a broken wrist for 2+ months; and the starting center missed the first 7 games where 1 or 2 wins could have pushed this team onto the right side of the bubble.

So let's not act like '23-'24 Wake was the second coming of the '90-'91 UNLV roster.

The '21-'22 roster was better (with a healthy Alondes) but didn't have nearly as many Q1 or quality resume building opportunities.
 
This is a couple of days old; so, it may have already been reported here, but Carter Whitt is headed to Belmont:

 
Colonel Angus said:
The '23-24 roster had one player who made 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or Honorable Mention ALL ACC; the starting SG played with a broken wrist for 2+ months; and the starting center missed the first 7 games where 1 or 2 wins could have pushed this team onto the right side of the bubble.

So let's not act like '23-'24 Wake was the second coming of the '90-'91 UNLV roster.

The '21-'22 roster was better (with a healthy Alondes) but didn't have nearly as many Q1 or quality resume building opportunities.
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not the second coming of UNLV, but seems to me more than enough to get to the NCAAT
 
When was the supposed (or real) deadline given to players? I thought I read something about it.
 
Strickland33 said:
The 247 insiders don't have any new info so I feel comfortable sharing this, but the external paid source (Trilly Donovan's Discord server or something?) that some of the 247 posters pay for believes that Carr is "staying for now."
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So giving Forbes the chance to put together a competitive team, otherwise, he's out.
 
buckets said:
If we're going to have 80% roster turnover every offseason, then this kind of season isn't building towards anything in the future.
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the people arguing that we’ve improved have a death grip on our improved analytics. It’s simply going to take an uncomfortable, undeserved amount of time for Forbes supporters to lose their patience.
 
GaK said:
forbes is a victim of his own success in some ways.
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DeacDaddy said:
No.
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GaK said:
you spent a decade in a coma then? Forbes inherited a complete disaster.
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I understand what you're trying to say, but I disagree.

Forbes gets credit for at least reviving a moribund program. This does not make him a victim. This is what he was hired to do.

And true success is making the tourney.

Therefore since I disagree that he’s any kind of victim, and since I disagree that he has experienced ultimate success, then the last thing he could be is a not only a victim, but a victim of his own success.
 
So Forbes has won 20 more games in 3 1/2 seasons that Bzz did in 4 full seasons and 7 fewer games than Manning did in 6 full seasons and we aren't seeing the progress? Jesus Christ, some of you need to realize the extent of the damage that was done over the lost decade. We are no longer the big program built by Rogers, Childress, Duncan and Paul. We have to get back to that. One coach and four years doesn't undo all the damage that Wellman, Redacted and Manning did to our flagship program. It is going to take time for Wake Forest to become synonymous with other big name programs again. Forbes may not take us to the top of the mountain, but he has moved us up a tier. If we fire him now, we lose all the momentum we have built up and will return to square one.

I, for one, would rather not wander the desert for another decade.
 
TheAbster said:
Remember the poster comparing him to Pete Maravich? Lordy, Lordy.
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Pete Maravich!?!? I do not remember that, but I do remember thinking he would be the PG for the future.
 
Demonbeck said:
So Forbes has won 20 more games in 3 1/2 seasons that Bzz did in 4 full seasons and 7 fewer games than Manning did in 6 full seasons and we aren't seeing the progress? Jesus Christ, some of you need to realize the extent of the damage that was done over the lost decade. We are no longer the big program built by Rogers, Childress, Duncan and Paul. We have to get back to that. One coach and four years doesn't undo all the damage that Wellman, Redacted and Manning did to our flagship program. It is going to take time for Wake Forest to become synonymous with other big name programs again. Forbes may not take us to the top of the mountain, but he has moved us up a tier. If we fire him now, we lose all the momentum we have built up and will return to square one.

I, for one, would rather not wander the desert for another decade.
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In the ACC that those other guys coached in, 2 of Forbes last 3 teams are tourney teams without question. Manning made the First Four at 9-9 in the ACC. Didn't win 20 games. Won a single game against a ranked team and it was at home which doesn't count anymore.

These arguments against Forbes are basically folks sticking fingers in their ears and stomping while just repeating "No tournament bids" over and over. That's fine if that is all you want to use to judge a coach by, but I think it's absurdly short-sighted and potentially self-destructive if too many fans think that way. Forbes has won a ton of games, dominated at the Joel, pulled in a ton of talent that has over-exited to the League, and has had us on the brink of breaking through multiple times in a much tougher atmosphere than any of his predecessors had - and did it while taking over during COVID and for a school that was wayyyy late to the NIL game. It's like looking at a golfer and saying "Oh that guy sucks he's never won" but he has a bunch of top 10's and all his metrics are excellent except one or two things he's working on. Eventually Phil won a bunch of majors, and eventually Forbes is gonna win a ton of tourney games for someone. I just hope it's Wake.
 
DCDeac said:
In the ACC that those other guys coached in, 2 of Forbes last 3 teams are tourney teams without question. Manning made the First Four at 9-9 in the ACC. Didn't win 20 games. Won a single game against a ranked team and it was at home which doesn't count anymore.

These arguments against Forbes are basically folks sticking fingers in their ears and stomping while just repeating "No tournament bids" over and over. That's fine if that is all you want to use to judge a coach by, but I think it's absurdly short-sighted and potentially self-destructive if too many fans think that way. Forbes has won a ton of games, dominated at the Joel, pulled in a ton of talent that has over-exited to the League, and has had us on the brink of breaking through multiple times in a much tougher atmosphere than any of his predecessors had - and did it while taking over during COVID and for a school that was wayyyy late to the NIL game. It's like looking at a golfer and saying "Oh that guy sucks he's never won" but he has a bunch of top 10's and all his metrics are excellent except one or two things he's working on. Eventually Phil won a bunch of majors, and eventually Forbes is gonna win a ton of tourney games for someone. I just hope it's Wake.
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I like it
 
Demonbeck said:
So Forbes has won 20 more games in 3 1/2 seasons that Bzz did in 4 full seasons and 7 fewer games than Manning did in 6 full seasons and we aren't seeing the progress? Jesus Christ, some of you need to realize the extent of the damage that was done over the lost decade. We are no longer the big program built by Rogers, Childress, Duncan and Paul. We have to get back to that. One coach and four years doesn't undo all the damage that Wellman, Redacted and Manning did to our flagship program. It is going to take time for Wake Forest to become synonymous with other big name programs again. Forbes may not take us to the top of the mountain, but he has moved us up a tier. If we fire him now, we lose all the momentum we have built up and will return to square one.

I, for one, would rather not wander the desert for another decade.
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For my part, I think Forbes is not yet to the point of deserving to be fired, because he’s done good work. But he’s also past the stage of relying on excuses.

How many more times are people going to cite our decade of woe as the excuse for Forbes? It’s over, it’s done. He pulled us out. That’s why he in no way deserves to be fired right now. He checked that box and has turned us around.

By the same token, it’s over, it’s done. It isn’t an excuse for him anymore. He’s not a “victim.” Now that he’s accomplished that, it’s time to get us to the tournament like he was ultimately hired to do.
 
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