When Players Are More Loyal To Coach Than School

[Deacfreak07]

There is a big difference in athletics. Athletics is entertainment. Fans invest money, time and emotional energy in teams and players. Grad assistants working in labs don't have thousands of fans following their every move and cheering them on. When players accept the role of student-athlete they are accepting the reality of being known and owned by the fan base. They are free to disregard that and reject the implications of it, but they do so at a price. Fans invest with the expectation that the players will be loyal to them, to their school. Perhaps that is too idealistic and unrealistic; but it is the expectation.

Maaaaaybe not the best choice of words, but then again, maybe that's what you meant.

I would guess that student-athletes are generally more loyal to their coach than their school almost universally so.

 

[Deaconblue]

This narrative keeps being brought up but didn't Timmy come back to campus to help Danny recruit Giles? Or did I just dream that up?

That was reported on here. It was after Odom and Wellman had patched up their differences.

 

[mebanedeac]

Maaaaaybe not the best choice of words, but then again, maybe that's what you meant.

I would guess that student-athletes are generally more loyal to their coach than their school almost universally so.

The reference is to how the public looks at things. Fans tend to see players as "their players" and they expect that players will see themselves in similar fashion. For many in my generation free agency brought chaos and ruin to professional sports by breaking up teams of players that were considered an unbreakable unit. Suddenly you had the unthinkable, Dodgers playing for the Giants and Red Sox playing for the Yankees. The ideas of team identity, player identity and loyalty were lost forever. People will still cheer for their schools but something has been lost. Imagine Randolph playing for the Heels?

 

[Deacfreak07]

The reference is to how the public looks at things. Fans tend to see players as "their players" and they expect that players will see themselves in similar fashion. For many in my generation free agency brought chaos and ruin to professional sports by breaking up teams of players that were considered an unbreakable unit. Suddenly you had the unthinkable, Dodgers playing for the Giants and Red Sox playing for the Yankees. The ideas of team identity, player identity and loyalty were lost forever. People will still cheer for their schools but something has been lost. Imagine Randolph playing for the Heels?

Did Dave Odom get hired by the heels at the same time?

 

[ProbationDeac]

Being a student-athlete is a job. In some jobs, if a boss leaves for another company, they'll take some employees with them. Even at universities, if a professor leaves, often some grad assistants and researchers will leave with them.

This.

 

[RJKarl]

Maaaaaybe not the best choice of words, but then again, maybe that's what you meant.

I would guess that student-athletes are generally more loyal to their coach than their school almost universally so.

I'd agree, but there are some who truly loved a specific school. Like you said, it is fairly rare.

 

[Deaconblue]

Being a student-athlete is a job. In some jobs, if a boss leaves for another company, they'll take some employees with them. Even at universities, if a professor leaves, often some grad assistants and researchers will leave with them.

Those aren't real good analogies for the Wake situation. Wake fired the "boss" for incompetence and failure to produce the quality level of product expected. And the fired guy doesn't have a new place to offer his followers as a landing place.

More like a prof being let go because his grant proposals were being turned down, his grad students weren't passing their qualifying exams and papers submitted were being rejected by peer reviewed journals.

 

[PhDeac]

And if those employees or students thought the boss or professor got a bum deal and blamed the business or university, they’d leave for whoever offered them a spot elsewhere.

 

[deaconson]

The idea that fans somehow own the players so players should be loyal to them and the school is ridiculous.

 

[mebanedeac]

The idea that fans somehow own the players so players should be loyal to them and the school is ridiculous.

Of course they do not own them objectively; but they do subjectively. That is a huge part of the attraction of college athletics.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Of course they do not own them objectively; but they do subjectively. That is a huge part of the attraction of college athletics.

The fact that you see the players as your metaphorical “property” rather than human beings who made a decision to attend your favored school really says a lot about you.

 

[mebanedeac]

The fact that you see the players as your metaphorical “property” rather than human beings who made a decision to attend your favored school really says a lot about you.

wow, that's deep and philosophical. I am impressed. thanks for the free analysis. only problem: you have no idea what you're talking about. but I'm sure that won't deter you. carry on.

 

[Strickland33]

wow, that's deep and philosophical. I am impressed. thanks for the free analysis. only problem: you have no idea what you're talking about. but I'm sure that won't deter you. carry on.

you explained yourself and made it sound even worse

if our interpretations are wrong, then how are they wrong?

what does a fanbase “subjectively owning” a student-athlete mean?

 

[mebanedeac]

you explained yourself and made it sound even worse

if our interpretations are wrong, then how are they wrong?

what does a fanbase “subjectively owning” a student

It simply means that in the fans' hearts the players are loved and cherished almost as family members. fans identify with them, study them, agonize over their injuries and set backs and find personal joy in their successes. It's not simply #23, it's Michael Jordan the guy I know whose father was murdered. He's my friend. He's my guy. Not simply a jersey who scores and wins.

That what I mean and nothing more. Growing up one of my heroes was Duke Snider. When he left the Dodgers it hurt, it was as though I has suffered a personal loss.

 

[1976Deac]

you explained yourself and made it sound even worse

if our interpretations are wrong, then how are they wrong?

what does a fanbase “subjectively owning” a student

It simply means that in the fans' hearts the players are loved and cherished almost as family members. fans identify with them, study them, agonize over their injuries and set backs and find personal joy in their successes. It's not simply #23, it's Michael Jordan the guy I know whose father was murdered. He's my friend. He's my guy. Not simply a jersey who scores and wins.

That what I mean and nothing more. Growing up one of my heroes was Duke Snider. When he left the Dodgers it hurt, it was as though I has suffered a personal loss.

Oh, my. Walk away from the edge, dude, you’re not helping yourself.

 

[Strickland33]

Could y'all please reformat the posts so it doesn't look like I'm making them?

I get what you're saying about personal investment in players and programs, mebane, but I don't think subjective ownership or ownership at all is the right way to conceptualize that feeling.

 

[Fusiondad10]

I think the premise of this thread is a bit naive. While it's possible in this more modern era of athletics to see examples of loyalty to a coach or a team or institution, the accepted behavior with far more everyday examples is to look out for yourself. If you think any significant number of our basketball players have great loyalty to Wake Forest as an institution, or a losing coach who did little to advance their careers or dreams of being a professional, then you're fooling yourself. When's the last time you saw ANY athlete sacrifice a personal career goal for a school, etc? Not very often. The last time I can remember was when the Clemson D-line stars, Christian Wilkins and his crew came back for another national championship run when they would've all been 1st rounders in the NFL draft. Even the Wake Forest basketball players who choose to stay for this coming year are likely doing it for themselves and possibly their teammates, not the new coach or the school. Here's hoping the program gets better no matter what.

 

[NewBernDeac]

I think the premise of this thread is a bit naive. While it's possible in this more modern era of athletics to see examples of loyalty to a coach or a team or institution, the accepted behavior with far more everyday examples is to look out for yourself. If you think any significant number of our basketball players have great loyalty to Wake Forest as an institution, or a losing coach who did little to advance their careers or dreams of being a professional, then you're fooling yourself. When's the last time you saw ANY athlete sacrifice a personal career goal for a school, etc? Not very often. The last time I can remember was when the Clemson D-line stars, Christian Wilkins and his crew came back for another national championship run when they would've all been 1st rounders in the NFL draft. Even the Wake Forest basketball players who choose to stay for this coming year are likely doing it for themselves and possibly their teammates, not the new coach or the school. Here's hoping the program gets better no matter what.

Agreed, but is why i have far less "involvement" with a Wake team (as opposed to my Wake team). In other words, it is not "our guys", instead it's "the best team money can buy". So when "they" win, its not so much that WE win as it is our buying is better than their buying. It's all part of the current awfulness of college sports. Mother so dear?

 

[AWSDeac]

My daughter was one of the top distance runners (1500/1600) in the US in HS. Almost every Power 5 school, the Ivies, and service academies recruited her. She narrowed her choices to UNC and NC State, much to my disappointment (Wake recruited her early and hard). She wanted to run for the coaching staff at State, but she wanted to attend UNC. My only guidance to her during the recruiting process was to start with the school and back into the program, as coaches come and go in almost every sport. She chose UNC, and had an incredible time there, in spite of numerous stress fractures which ultimately forced her to medically retire before the beginning of her junior track season. She graduated this year, and if she had to do it all over again, she still would have chosen UNC. I realize that the revenue sports are different, as some athletes choose programs with a reputation of launching pro careers, but even in those sports, if you are talented, a professional team will probably find you, or you them.

 

[cville deac]

I'm with Fusion and deaconson. When you have coaching changes, there will be some disruption to the team. I have no problem with guys transferring if they're unhappy with changes. And I'm not going to speak ill of players who do transfer.